this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2025

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-13

USA pays nothing to Canada for NORAD (lemmy.ca)

submitted 1 day ago by humanspiral@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

31 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Canada unfairly, being totally taken advantage of, defends the USA from missiles and aircraft attack through Arctic, with its early warning RADAR system, possible secret missile bases, and expensive substandard F35 purchases and other aircraft donations.

When US declares a fake "national emergency" to break its trade agreements, it is an act of war. "There is nothing Canada/Mexico can do to address the fake national emergency, and the small trade imbalance is unfair, and we can use economic extortion to take Canada's sovereignty" is a rulership intent on war.

Canada needs to remove US military alliance today. It needs to stop following US propaganda to demonize the adversaries the US tells us to believe are Canada's adversaries. Normal humanist peaceful relations with Russia means Russia is no threat to Canada, and NORAD only serves US empire's global extortion with "veil of immunity". Whenever immunity from blowback is shown to be a false shield, then history starts on that day and "they only hate us for our freedom" is propagandized.

Official preparations for better trade with China and Mexico need to be started today. Leadership visits to those countries needed today. If EU wants to help instead of cowering in fear, they need to send their leaders to visit Canada.

Both Canada and EU need to take stance that US must pay significantly more for NATO's assistance in projecting US empire, instead of tolerating the BS that they are the ones that must pay 150% more for privilege of US diminishing them all, as the US has done with Ukraine war.

top 31 comments

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[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 27 points 1 day ago (1 children)

peaceful relations with Russia

Have you not been paying attention?

[+] humanspiral@lemmy.ca -25 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Canada can't afford war with/diminishment of US enemies. It is 100% propaganda that Ukraine is not fully responsible for provoking war with Russia, at US puppetry control. Canadians need to be woken up from its US/CIA media and politician control in subservience to US agendas.

Simple neutrality with those countries who have not declared war against us this week, or ever, is the basic ask for any non traitorous ruler we have, and it should come with full Canadian support. Otherwise, you are fully supporting a "fatigue/boiling the frog" path to accepting being a US territory along with its massive debt, extortionist healthcare, and voter suppression political corruption.

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Fully responsible is a pretty big jump. The maiden protests were definitely a Victoria neuland production (Obama admin, undermining Obama’s official foreign policy…) but russias military maneuvers are a pretty aggressive response. Ukrainians have the right to their own country free from any interference, US or Russia.

[+] humanspiral@lemmy.ca -9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

After 2014 coup, then Odessa massacre, Banderite militias were allowed to shell/terrorize Donbas, with US weaponry. Russia pursued peaceful resolutions through Minsk accords. Ukraine and west signing the accords were admission of its "~~nazi~~ evil terrorism" that needed to be stopped, but they also later admitted, including Zelensky's false election promise to implement them, that signing a peaceful resolution was just to buy time to build military in order to provoke a war.

The propaganda of hate is easy: "We're fully permitted to diminish nations that we hate, and like Santa Claus, everyone should believe every lie for our own good". There is no ideology in the world that is worse than communism or ex-communists to US.

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There was some very shady shit that happened during and after the maiden protests. And there’s the US’ gangster based economy of “defense” aka weapons export. The Mexican president just alluded to it in an address about tariffs in Spanish re fentanyl and organized crime, how 3/4 of the weapons are from American “defense” industry with American military involvement.

I don’t trust the American narrative about Russia, but I also don’t trust the Russians. And I like communism. Capitalism leads to barbarism, Marx has been right about capitalism all along.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 day ago

There was some very shady shit that happened during and after the maiden protests.

Protestor shootings that directly led to Yanukovich fleeing was a false flag attack by banderites. Zero Maidan/liberals were put in place under Neuland's chosen puppet government. Only nationalists hateful of ethnic Russians.

[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

When Russia can keep their army inside their own border, quit trying to move border lines in other countries besides Ukraine, quit assassinating people, quit arresting all opposition figures, quit with the troll farms, quit claiming Canadian Arctic territory as their own, and generally just quit being pricks, we can talk about having peaceful relations. Until then, Putin and all his cronies can get fucked.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I have a feeling that we'll discover in the next few days/weeks that Canada has been the one being screwed over by the US, and not the other way around. In other words, the truth will be the opposite of what Orange Juice says.

[–] Chuymatt@beehaw.org 2 points 1 day ago

Usually is.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What they need to do is prioritize artic shipping rather than staying dependent on land exports from America.

Most of what is imported to Canada via the US was made elsewhere and US is just a middle man.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Oh, I'm sure that our country, and many of the businesses we have, will adapt in ways that shield us from having to rely on such an unstable neighbour.

We'll come out so much better for this, and they'll be left isolated from the world as some backstabbing, unreliable, petty nation... much like their leader.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If that was happening, sure.

But it's not, so I have no idea why you're so optimistic

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

But it’s not

Dude, we aren't even at day 1 with these tariffs... we'll adapt. We have to, because our relationship with the US has forever changed because of this.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

You're talking about actions of oligarchs to protect their own wealth.

I'm talking about actions of your government to protect it's citizens.

Two completely different things.

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Have you ever thought as a Canadian that you’re being put in some weird tug of war between Russia and the US over your natural resources? Something real weird is going on here.

Just remember - most Americans especially the northern states that you trade the most with don’t want this and we have long been held hostage by a government that seems to be completely couped by the far right since 2000, starting with bush’s stolen election and the packing of the federal courts, overturning of citizens United, let it happen 9/11, fraudulent forever war on terror, and then of course what it’s led to with the multiple trump terms and the coup of the SCOTUS. We don’t have a legitimate government and the democrats are complicit as they’re also corporate captured and pro imperialist.

I think if things start to get bad Canada should work directly with friendly US states and make us an offer we can’t refuse, seceding from the US and joining Canada. Most of us would be happy to stop subsidizing the red states that drag us down in exchange for healthcare.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

as a Canadian that you’re being put in some weird tug of war between Russia and the US over your natural resources? Something real weird is going on here.

Russia generally has the same/similar resources as Canada. Most resource wars are based on destabilizing/sanctioning countries so that they cannot compete with "you". The "theater script" for Ukraine war that Russia and US accepted is that permawar for as long as possible for US military production/sales and oil profits and conquest of Europe trade, ensure climate catastrophe with more alternate developments, and Russian diesel use, with eventual result being Russia winning its modest objectives + territory. There are certainly people in Russia getting rich from the war, but also Russian wages are extremely high due to competition/bonuses to its voluntary Army.

The US has firm control over Canadian resources. Chinese deals to invest in them are blocked "for national security reasons". Russia doesn't need more resources for itself, because it has nearby development sites it can invest in. China likes expanding global supply options. Canada obeying US on everything, and dedicated to making it its only market is Canada's problem. Russia not to blame.

I think if things start to get bad Canada should work directly with friendly US states and make us an offer we can’t refuse, seceding from the US and joining Canada. Most of us would be happy to stop subsidizing the red states that drag us down in exchange for healthcare.

Canada needs to be bigger. It's why immigration was welcomed under Trudeau. Immigration only works if a sustainable future is hoped for. Otherwise we must resort to canibalism right away, and right wing got a big boost from anger due to unsustainability combined with full support to ensure unsustainability as the solution. Absolutely, US states are welcome to join without threatening the right with reaction to + support for unsustainability. Bigger overall market, and less divisiveness.

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago (3 children)

You have the most freshwater resources in the world and the American west needs it (not defending belligerence!). I’d imagine Russia has decent fresh water but I’m sure you have something they don’t. Whether it be strategic location (with a warming world, more shipping routes as well) or simply more resources…

I’m not sure growing Canada bigger via immigration was the best move for you (at least how it turned out with neoliberal Trudeau). As I understand it your real estate market got fucked because you couldn’t build fast enough for the influx breeding resentment in non immigrant Canadians against newcomers. That’s ripe for exploitation of social division in the future…

Now growing Canada by absorbing part of the US… that might be a good move. We’re getting increasingly fed up with the situation and a dissolution of the union looks possible in a way it never did before.

[–] millie@beehaw.org 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Honestly I could see portions of New England being pretty willing to join Canada.

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago

Yesss a vermonter I’m down please give me some healthcare

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

real estate market got fucked because you couldn’t build fast enough

"Couldn't" is doing a lot of lifting here... The neo lib parasites and culture is not couldnt that's wouldn't IMHO

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Do notice I said under neoliberal Trudeau :)

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Touché

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago

Toque!

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 day ago

Whether it be strategic location (with a warming world, more shipping routes as well) or simply more resources…

Everything about shipping routes through Canada or Greenland by Russia/Asia is a lie. The only use of them would be to trade with Americas. Trade with Europe can use Russian waters exclusively. Resources would be for Americas markets too. It would be impossible for Russia to defend well if current beligerism from North America exists.

It is only under long term peace with Russia/China that we can invite them to spend $$$$ on developing the arctic or trading with us. Still US/Canada developers would have huge market/logistics advantages that could outbid a Chinese/Russian project proposal.

Now growing Canada by absorbing part of the US… that might be a good move. We’re getting increasingly fed up with the situation and a dissolution of the union looks possible in a way it never did before.

Yes, housing construction was not sufficiently supported with immigration. Non-issue with States becoming provinces.

[–] JohnnyCanuck@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 day ago

r/lostcomrades

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Canada needs to remove US military alliance today.

I used to be surprised people kept walking into obvious traps...

Now I'm just numb to it.

Like, your big suggestion on how to get trump back... Is to do exactly what he wants?!

[+] humanspiral@lemmy.ca -6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Is to do exactly what he wants?!

"Trump wants to exit from NATO" is the big meme. He loves Putin, perhaps because of a pee tape is another.

Because US has colonial control over all NATO members, NATO is seriously considering a 50% to 150% increase in military spending, most of it to buy US weapons, for purposes of completely destroying their economy/social safety nets, all of which to force Russia to still outproduce them militarily. The delusion that US controlled NATO is not behaving under pure demonism in false fear of Russia is the self destruction submission to US. The US only needs exclusive, not NATO, control over Greenland in order to threaten Europe directly. Greenland is far away from Russia, and like Canada, a NATO/NORAD ally is fully committed to intercepting ICBMs that go over its land.... so far.

There is 0 negative political opposition in US if Trump succeeds in annexing Canada or other countries or in significantly subjugating EU/NATO to high military tributes. Dressing up basic self respect to ally with countries who have never threatened any of us, and were balanced trade partners prior to 2022 as "giving Trump what he wants" is simply/pure treason through "Putin Derangement Syndrome". Canada/EU was always on wrong side of war on Russia, as proven by current US policy. Our sycophancy is not rewarded.

If you dream of Trump is devoted to Putin, then emptying NORAD of defenses to give Putin a clear ICBM shot into Permean basin, because Trump wants that, then Canada gets to settle its trade war by giving something Trump wants.

There needs to be zero tolerance for the BS that the US protects Canada. It is Canada protecting US, and US must pay heavily for that privilege.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Your heart is in the right place, I think.

You just don't seem to know about what you're talking about.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 day ago

Canada's extensive contibutions to NORAD, proudly declared by Canada last year:

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2024/02/statement-from-the-minister-of-national-defence-on-the-norad-change-of-command.html#%3A%7E%3Atext=In+January+2023%2C+the+Government%2CUnited+States+and+NATO+forces.

$39B promised since 2022.