this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2025
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We all know Signal, Matrix, Telegram, SimpleX, etc... But if you can't access the internet you can't communicate. Pretty logic. But would it be possible, at least theoretically, to create an app that permits to message people even if the internet goes down?

It might be a dumb question I really have no idea to be honest.

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[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 14 minutes ago (1 children)

Surprised nobody mentioned scuttlebutt yet https://scuttlebutt.nz/

[–] VubDapple@real.lemmy.fan 1 points 3 minutes ago

SSB can use the internet to share encrypted messages via hubs/servers, but it also can share the same messages peer to peer in a mesh sort of setup without the internet using a 'gossip' protocol within a local network. It was invented by a sailor who was regularly away from WiFi due to being at sea.

[–] Earflap@reddthat.com 8 points 1 hour ago

Depending on how far you're willing to push the definition of "messaging" you could look into getting your ham radio license.

[–] 0x0@programming.dev 2 points 1 hour ago

I think SimpleX is mesh?

[–] Ferk@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Yes, it's possible. To be honest, I find it very sad that we have grown so dependent on ISP and big telecom companies to have a working network.

In theory, you could have an infrastructure in your neighborhood and be able to play Quake with your neighbors without making use of the phone line at all, completely free of monthly fees and with a very efficient and fast connection too! you'd just need cabling connecting the apartments/houses and some decent routers controlling/restricting access on each subnet. It's a pity that's not a standard thing when designing residences.

Though less efficient and more limited in range, you can technically do it with Wifi and mesh networking too... there are projects like B.A.T.M.A.N (https://www.open-mesh.org/), however, it's not very user-friendly to set up. I believe there have been some projects that attempted to launch embedded devices to act as mini routers for this, but the spread has not been wide enough to make it worth it, sadly.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Briar has a mesh mode. And i think there was a matrix app doing this too?

[–] root@lemmy.world 9 points 5 hours ago

Meshtastic can be encrypted and is LoRa based. Can easily hit nodes dozens of miles away with a good line of sight. It also relays messages across nodes to reach even further distances.

[–] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 hours ago

If you don't want to use internet the only ways are to use radio or deploy your own network infrastructure (optic fiber or cell tower), so there's no really any messaging app that can be used without internet. Briar can use Bluetooth but with a limited range, needing an actual dense mesh network.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Briar (Android Only) - Uses Bluetooth, Wifi, or Internet via Tor to communicate. You can theretically create a large mesh group with enough users. Think of protests where the government shuts down the internet. Downside is, bluetooth range is 10 meters 😓.


Also: You can send encrypted text over SMS using Secure Space Encryptor (SSE) (known as Paranoia Text Encryption on iOS). It's an Open Source app that can encrypt text.

  1. Type text
  2. Copy the Ciphertext
  3. Send and tell the recipient to use SSE fo decrypt.

You both have to share a password/passphrase over a secure channel, then use that to encrypt and decrypt.

Or PGP (there are mobile apps), but they aren't quantum resistant. If someone intercept and stores them, it could be decrypted later. So I recomment Symmetric Encryption like AES 256 (so use SSE for better security, since they use AES 256)


You can also encrypt a radio:

Rattlegram is an app on iOS/Android that alllows converting text to audio and play it over your phone’s speaker.

As mentioned before, SSE.

  1. Use SSE to encrypt text
  2. Copy-Paste the Ciphertext to Rattlegram
  3. Sent it over the radio
  4. On the other end, use Raddlegram to turn the audio back to the ciphertext
  5. Use SSE to decrypt.

Voila! Off-Grid Encrypted communications.

Warning: Encryption over Ham Radio bands is illegal in many countries 😉 (but fuck the law lol, who cares)

There's also Meshtastic, but it has much shorter range, but, in the USA at least, they aren't "Ham Radio" so they (supposedly) can be encrypted legally.

[–] elperronegro@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

Check out Reticulum Network Stack using LORA radio. Works really well.

http://reticulum.network/

[–] jbrjake@lemmy.world 36 points 14 hours ago

The first thing that comes to mind is Meshtastic: https://meshtastic.org/

[–] turbowafflz@lemmy.world 20 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I mean this is a terrible answer, but DS pictochat fits that

No joke, I was talking about this recently. I feel like niche groups (me included) are just going full-circle back to the DS days

[–] mrpalmer16@lemmy.ml 2 points 9 hours ago

This one works, if you don't mind a little diy and texting only: https://circuitmess.com/products/chatter-lora-communication-device

[–] QuazarOmega@lemy.lol 10 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Besides the already mentioned Briar, there's Berty, can't speak to its quality since I never used it, but I always found the project neat in and of itself

[–] Deckweiss@lemmy.world 10 points 14 hours ago
[–] merde@sh.itjust.works 3 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

wouldn't a cheap walkie-talkie be more practical in that situation?

i remember using this app some time ago ☞ https://f-droid.org/packages/org.jsl.wfwt/

[–] ThatGuyNamedZeus@feddit.org 3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

wouldn’t a cheap walkie-talkie be more practical in that situation?

That's not secure or encrypted

You can encrypt a radio.

Rattlegram is an app on iOS/Android that alllows converting text to audio and play it over your phone's speaker

Secure Space Encryptor (SSE) (known as Paranoia Text Encryption on iOS) is an Open Source app that can encrypt text.

  1. Use SSE to encrypt text
  2. Copy-Paste the Ciphertext to Rattlegram
  3. Sent it over the radio
  4. On the other end, use Raddlegram to turn the audio back to the ciphertext
  5. Use SSE to decrypt.

Voila! Off-Grid Encrypted communications.

Warning: Encryption over radio is illegal in many countries 😉 (but fuck the law lol, who cares)

[–] ThatGuyNamedZeus@feddit.org 5 points 13 hours ago

yes, a lot of people were using those kinds of apps during the free hong kong protests, they go from device-to-device with no internet in between.

No idea what the app is called, but apps like those exist

[–] ThatGuyNamedZeus@feddit.org 1 points 9 hours ago

scratch telegram off that list, but Session messenger there instead.

Telegram isn't private, one guy has the master key to the whole thing

[–] bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net 4 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

There used to be one years ago that used WiFi radios or Bluetooth or whatever so you could chat to people near you... I totally forget what it was called though.

[–] suckmyspez@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)
[–] bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net 1 points 2 hours ago

Yes, this is totally what I was thinking of!

[–] transitinoir@slrpnk.net 10 points 14 hours ago (2 children)
[–] mp3@lemmy.ca 2 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Bridgefy was used more during protests since it's available on both iOS and Android, while Briar is Android only.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

Bridgefy seems to require an online account to use. Brair requires zero obline accounts, and even allows sharing the apk to nearby devices without internet.

Edit: Yea, just checked... Bridgefy requires an internet connection the first time you launch it. Not good...

[–] mp3@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Yeah I'm not saying Bridgefy is better, just that it's available on both major mobile platforms while Briar isn't. I do prefer Briar on technical and privacy levels.

[–] bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I don't thiiiiink that's it, but like I said, I don't remember the name, so it might be 🤷‍♂️

[–] Tippon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

Briar is the one that was mentioned a lot when the protests were happening in Hong Kong, if that helps 👍

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Taiwan? 🤨

You mean Hong Kong?

[–] Tippon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Yes, sorry. I woke up in the middle of the night, but apparently my brain didn't...

I'll correct it now 👍

[–] Master@lemm.ee 1 points 11 hours ago

Isn't this what airdrop was?