this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
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Americans' ardent support for Israel is palpable in poll after poll showing far greater sympathy for the Jewish state than for Palestinians.

It's evidenced in the vote in the last U.S. Congress to top up American funding for Israel's missile-defence system: a lopsided result of 420 to 9.

So that American backing is not in question; it's a decades-long reality and was just reinforced with the blood-curdling massacre of Israeli civilians by Hamas militants on Oct. 7.

What's less certain is the reaction from one important constituency as Israel expands its counter-offensive in Gaza and as the death toll mounts among Palestinian civilians.

We're talking about the U.S. left. It's virtually the only place in American politics where there might be a debate — over what's acceptable in war, and about a path back to peace.

And signs are emerging of Democrats wanting to pressure Israel into abiding by certain limits in its operation.

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[–] alvvayson@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago (24 children)

I wouldn't be so confident.

The American majority is solidly center-left.

Sure, the progressive wing is still small and they are smart enough to dodge the anti-semitism rhetoric. Why paint a target on your back.

But the public opinion is definitely shifting away from unconditional support for Israel. I haven't seen this much pro-Palestinian support in my life.

[–] grte@lemmy.ca 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

20 years ago you'd have Noam Chomksy and Norman Finkelstein calling out what's going on and that's about it. It's very different today.

[–] roguetrick@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

There's no cold war anymore and the assassination of Rabin and rise of the Israeli right wing has been the change (even if it was a delayed effect in American perception). The only political assassination that was so successful at achieving the assassin's goals as that of Rabin in recent memory was the one of Japan's Abe.

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[–] Pat12@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

north americans aren't "allowed" to criticise israel because that criticism gets confused for being anti-semitic and people risk losing their jobs and israel is meant to be a US ally, it's really awful that people can't call out another country's shitty behaviour. People should be able to criticise the Israeli govt, the CCP, the saudi government's treatment of people terrible without fear of repercussion

[–] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

The criticism isn't confused for being antsemitic. Genuine criticism of the actions of the Israeli government is deliberately labled as antisemitism to discredit it.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

I saw this today and searched for any other articles where The Times of Israel uses the word "genocide"... This complete lack of self-criticism is what made Israel an apartheid state.

[–] shatal@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Unfortunately Hamas's success was far beyond their expectations. They were left unchecked for hours and during that time chose to commit the worst type of atrocities.

In doing so, they validated Israelis fears that if the "Palestinians" could, they would torture, rape and kill every single Israeli including the elderly and children.

Israel is now a country in trauma and is driven by vengeance and fear.

Sadly, at this point, no amount of world criticism will make any difference.

The only way to prevent massive casualties on both sides is if Hamas releases the civilian hostages.

[–] FrostyTrichs@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago

Israel is driven by vengeance and fear.

That's been the case for decades but a lot of the world won't hold them accountable for their own actions.

Palestinian lives and civil rights almost always take a backseat to Israeli rhetoric and posturing on the world stage. The loss of any innocent life is tragic whether it be Israeli, Palestinian, or otherwise and should be treated as such.

Unfortunately for everyone Palestine/Gaza has become so desperate to escape their shrinking cage that they seem to have resorted to desperate and despicable tactics, and Israel will gladly commit genocide if the world allows them to. It's a no win situation that should be defused by world powers, not encouraged and bankrolled by them.

[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Hamas releasing hostages won't help. Israel wants a blood price measured in tens of thousands of bodies.

[–] shatal@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

You're not wrong, but with the tensions in Israel's northern border and with Hizbolla signalling that they will launch an assault if Israel moves into Gaza, releasing the hostages might just be the excuse everyone needs to de-escalate.

[–] lmaydev@lemmy.world -4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I don't quite see how supporting a defense system to stop incoming missiles is a bad thing though.

[–] fluke@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Don't be disengenuous. It's more than that and you know it.

[–] lmaydev@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

I do indeed and it's all awful.

But that's what the text draws on to show American support.

I'm just saying I don't feel funding a defense weapon is a good example.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago

CITIZEN: Good faith questions (even if brought up by the second sentence in the story) are unwelcome unless they conform to lemmy's zeitgeist.

(Now say something anti-Ireal and you might get some points back. Of course that might get you called an anti-Semite. Either way, you're basically a terrorist. 🤷🏻‍♂️ You really can't win.)