this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2024
243 points (99.6% liked)

Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.

5387 readers
475 users here now

Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades: Graph of temperature as observed with significant warming, and simulated without added greenhouse gases and other anthropogentic changes, which shows no significant warming

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world: IPCC AR6 Figure 2 - Thee bar charts: first chart: how much each gas has warmed the world. About 1C of total warming. Second chart: about 1.5C of total warming from well-mixed greenhouse gases, offset by 0.4C of cooling from aerosols and negligible influence from changes to solar output, volcanoes, and internal variability. Third chart: about 1.25C of warming from CO2, 0.5C from methane, and a bunch more in small quantities from other gases. About 0.5C of cooling with large error bars from SO2.

Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:

Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
silence7@slrpnk.net
243
The US no longer supports capping plastic production in UN treaty (grist.org)
submitted 1 month ago by solo@slrpnk.net to c/climate@slrpnk.net
28 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Environmental advocates understand the announcement as a reversal, calling it “absolutely devastating.”

The Biden administration has backtracked from supporting a cap on plastic production as part of the United Nations’ global plastics treaty.

This represents a reversal of what the same groups were told at a similar briefing held in August, when Biden administration representatives raised hopes that the U.S. would join countries like Norway, Peru, and the United Kingdom in supporting limits on plastic production.

Nearly 70 countries, along with scientists and environmental groups, support the latter. They say it’s futile to mop up plastic litter while more and more of it keeps getting made.

all 37 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 44 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

I noticed something weird about the comments here.

20 minutes after the post, treefrog posted his comment defining a "Fuck the Democrats ... I'm done voting for them" narrative. I've noticed that a lot of topics on Lemmy get tied back to not voting for the Democrats.

There then followed about an hour of, basically, silence, with that "Fuck the Democrats" comment as the top comment. Then I posted my response, disagreeing with treefrog.

After that, the next hour or so featured, not 0 comments like the previous hour, but 4 different comments. The only comments that got made, outside of my discussion with treefrog, were:

  • A top-level comment saying "Fuck the Biden administration" which took over the comment top spot
  • Other replies to treefrog's top level comment, pushing my response down

The total result is that the top two comments say "Fuck the Biden administration" and "Fuck the Democrats", and then there's general less focused conversation after that. The narrative is back, in these comments, that the right response to this is not to vote for the Democrats.

Maybe this sounds like conspiracy theory rock, but I've noticed this pattern before, where there's a "fuck the Democrats" narrative in the top comments, with the comments otherwise being quiet, and if something changes that narrative among the top comments, there's a little flurry of activity until the narrative is reestablished, and then things quiet down again.

Maybe I'm nuts. It definitely was notable to me, though. Especially given the weirdness of reacting to this particular story by instantly reaching for "Let's not vote for Democrats anymore!" as the solution to environmental problems. Like... out of all the strategies or reactions you could have, that's the first one that comes to mind?

Edit: Clarifications

Edit 2: The person who reported this for "incivility"... lol.

[–] WanderingVentra@lemm.ee 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Eh the Democrats really fucked up this last election and haven't made a lot of good decisions since (undoing their 30 day warning to Israel, this, they haven't really been preparing for the Trump admin well like by fast tracking judges or anything, etc).

It's probably just a coincidence but personally I'm okay with the anger getting to a place where another party rises to take their place. This election was the last straw for a lot of people and I think it's finally causing some people to see how not great they are. Everyone's been ignoring it and discouraging dissent against them on Lemmy for a long time now because the election, but there's no reason to hold back. There's no more election now so I doubt it's bots or whatever, it's just people pissed, and rightfully.

As for the lack of other discussion, there's probably just not a lot else to say. It's a bad decision that's obviously bad for environment and the world. There isn't a lot to say about thay other than, "well that sucks."

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 1 points 1 month ago

Turning against the corporate Democrats, because their environmental policies are bad, will not get them replaced by something better. Turning against the corporate Democrats will probably result in one-party rule by the Republicans for a generation, with horrors environmental and domestic the likes of which no one of this generation has witnessed.

I would also apply that exact same thing to the breed of Nancy Pelosi Democrats that wants to hang the progressive wing of the party out to dry. It seems like after a few days of panic after the election, everyone forgot what we're in for. We need allies at this stage. Or we will all hang separately, and like that.

Everyone’s been ignoring it and discouraging dissent against them on Lemmy

This narrative that "everyone" on Lemmy loves the Democrats is very weird. You can deal head-on with what I'm saying, it is fine, you don't need to agree with me. But the "Democrats aren't great" consensus on Lemmy is not exactly a persecuted minority, please don't try to introduce a narrative that they are.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Also only two comments mention plastic at all, which is odd given the topic.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 12 points 1 month ago

It's so weird. It's like a mad libs that only comes up with one answer.

"US Government fucked something up again because of course they did."

"Let's n͟o͟t͟ ͟v͟o͟t͟e͟ ͟f͟o͟r͟ ͟D͟e͟m͟o͟c͟r͟a͟t͟s͟!"

Like yeah, Biden did some unexpectedly good stuff on the climate, and some standard Democrat stuff which definitely isn't great. This is part of the latter. I'm not even sure it matters, since Trump will be in charge of implementing this treaty so it was DOA anyway, but regardless of that: Did you guys forget the real life Nazis are going to be in charge in a couple of months? It's going to take a ton of work to even have elections in four years that we can not-vote-for-Democrats in, let alone some good progressive change to keep pushing the Democrats towards something resembling a decent environmental policy. Just not voting, and then sitting back all satisifed like "that oughta do it," is such a mind-boggling strategy... and yet it's the one that always gets consistent airplay.

[–] franklin@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but I've definitely noticed it too.

[–] AwakenedAce@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Maybe it's just a popular opinion on here, so when people click on the thread and see their opinions being mentioned they don't add more comments saying the same stuff as there's no point.

But then when they see someone else say something that differs from their own opinions, it's not unlikely that people tend to reply more to try and express themselves if they feel their opinions are no longer in the majority.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 3 points 1 month ago

Yeah, could be. The other thing I thought of was maybe there's something about sorting by "Active" that means that my comment pushes it up into being seen by more people, and that's why there are more comments when that happens.

It's just odd, though. The flurry of responses that come in-between a stable "fuck the Democrats" narrative at the top of the comments, and another "fuck the Democrats" narrative at the top of the comments, aren't really any kind of disagreement with me. It's just other top-level comments and random conversation. I would have to be able to show a little snapshot of how the comments looked at different points in time to really put across what it is about it that makes it seem really weird to me, honestly.

[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 3 points 1 month ago

a large contingent of americans looove blaming the left for everything up to and including the actions of the right. It means they don't have to do any introspection

[–] abies_exarchia@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The democratic party establishment failed us in this last election and the wound is raw. OP’s post demonstrates further actions of the democrat leaders that are maligned with a just and livable world, and it feels like rubbing dirt in that wound. I think it’s pretty expected to see these ‘fuck democrat’ comments in response to this

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)
  • Raw emotional appeal, themes of betrayal
  • Tying everything back to not voting for Democrats as the most important thing
  • No real engagement with anything I said, the whole comment was just about the suspicious timing of comments. I wasn't trying to say it's weird that someone would blame something the Biden administration did on Biden. That part makes sense to me.
  • "Democrat leaders"

Yeah, sounds about right.

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)
  1. Is an explanation for people posting angrily about democrats
  2. No they didn't? What?
  3. C/climate is the most active community on slrpnk.net and gets many more passerby comments from other instances. The timing isn't terribly unusual, especially considering the little preview text for the article explicitly mentions the biden administration dropping the ball on the environment again. Most people aren't going to read the article and only respond to the title/preview.
  4. The corporate democrats are clearly the ones who hold the reins in the DNC (hence how Bernie got fucked over), why is it odd to say that?
[–] bravesilvernest@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Can't wait to see what horrors our bodies create from ingesting all these plastics

[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.today 18 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The US never did; we've just reached the phase where villains don't feel like they need to hide their atrocities any more.

[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Honestly, why the fuck did anyone ever expect any US administration to actually take meaningful action.

They're bought and fucking sold, the entire country

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

The national religion is The Economy. No one can ever get elected on anything that doesn't put that as the biggest issue. Hell, we'll elect fraudster fascists with a known, terrible business track record if he looks like a caricature of the rich.

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 9 points 1 month ago

No cap frfr

[–] photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 month ago

So, you're telling me Biden visiting the Amazon was nothing but posturing? Color me shocked.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

Fuck the Biden administration and their anticipatory obedience to the fascists.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

All ahead on climate change everyone!

As long as it doesn't interfere in capitalist profits.