this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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Everyone knows that electric vehicles are supposed to be better for the planet than gas cars. That's the driving reason behind a global effort to transition toward batteries.

But what about the harms caused by mining for battery minerals? And coal-fired power plants for the electricity to charge the cars? And battery waste? Is it really true that EVs are better?

The answer is yes. But Americans are growing less convinced.

The net benefits of EVs have been frequently fact-checked, including by NPR. "No technology is perfect, but the electric vehicles are going to offer a significant benefit as compared to the internal combustion engine vehicles," Jessika Trancik, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told NPR this spring.

It's important to ask these questions about EVs' hidden costs, Trancik says. But they have been answered "exhaustively"


her word


and a widerange of organizations have confirmed that EVs still beat gas.

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[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 21 points 3 days ago (4 children)

The only valid criticisms of EV's are:

  1. They're harder to extinguish than a gas car if they end up catching on fire.

  2. They don't really solve any of the major issues with car based infrastructure.

  3. Tesla is a shit show because of that damn muskrat which pushes a lot of people away from EV's in general.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 days ago (3 children)

They are heavier and accelerate faster than an equivalent ICE vehicle on the same frame, and so result in more pedestrian fatalities.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

They are heavier and accelerate faster than an equivalent ICE vehicle on the same frame, and so result in more pedestrian fatalities.

That's not why.

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[–] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They’re harder to extinguish than a gas car if they end up catching on fire.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a62188058/tesla-semi-crash-fire-required-50000-gallons-of-water-and-fire-fighting-aircraft/

Yeah that is gonna be a bigger problem than most people imagined.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

To be fair, no consumer vehicles have 900 kWh batteries haha.

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[–] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 37 points 4 days ago (15 children)

Public transportation is even better yet

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago (4 children)

And when we actually get that going I'll stop making sure I always have a car available.

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[–] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 126 points 5 days ago (18 children)

We're going to run the country into the ground because we have such a large group of people being totally fine with (or even encouraging) their lack of education and the ability to reason properly. They're just proud to be "against" something together, they don't even care what it is they're against.

There are already EV battery recycling plants springing up now that there are enough used EVs to warrant them, there wasn't much point building them when there weren't any battery packs to process.

The renewable energy switch is already happening, because even without subsidies they're still cheaper.

But no... gotta get out there and roll coal.

[–] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 28 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

North American auto has lost its mind and handed over any chance at being top-tier in the future. Seems game over to me. Canada is joining in on the 100% tariff game and I'm furious that my government will, this late in the game, try and protect an industry that gambled with the oil and gas industry and lost (not to mention their compete fall into profiteering in five to six digit major life purchases) by passing costs of avoiding Elon and subpar selection onto consumers.

I hope the industry wakes up and goes hard for competitiveness in EVs and stops waiting for elections to decide if climate change is real or if the economy will be affected by their decisions. To stop waiting for elections to decide if people want EVs. To allow manufacturing to flourish regardless of who's fighting for the rights to our money while we briefly have it.

And to your point yeah - just like Asimov said:

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.

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[–] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 28 points 5 days ago (10 children)

I live in Virginia and the other day I saw a Tesla with a custom license plate for friends of coal. like I don't even...

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[–] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago (10 children)

Put them in a sealed room with a gas engine running and you'll see how fast they realize that they're cleaner

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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Because the conservative machine, despite the love of Elon's right-wing antics, never stop talking about how bad EVs are. Funny, the only time they act like they care about the environment is when they talk about how bad the EV batteries are to manufacture. While they roll coal and drive gas-guzzling mall cruiser bro-dozers all over the place.

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[–] dutchkimble@lemy.lol 14 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Genuine question - are EVs better for the environment if the main source of electricity of my country is coal based? Most of the coal plants are pretty old too…

[–] LordKitsuna@lemmy.world 36 points 4 days ago (14 children)

Yes, whether your electric plant is coal, natural gas, or honestly even if it was diesel. Larger engines are more efficient than smaller ones. It's been a long time since I broke down the math over 10 years so my information is probably wildly out of date but even 10 years ago when you broke down the math charging an EV from a fossil fuel plant of any kind was still ultimately more efficient than a gas car in the long term.

Couple that with the ability of many EV now to also act as a battery for your house and that just goes wildly into the EVs favor if you utilize that for peak demand offset. Which many people could do easily even if it meant not having their battery fully charged in the morning when they go to leave for work because let's face it very few people drive more than 60 miles full round trip in a day so even with their battery at say half they would have more than enough for their whole day plus extra.

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 22 points 3 days ago

Yes. That's the entire point here. The answer is yes.

[–] _bcron@lemmy.world 45 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (11 children)

They all suck in their own unique ways. Automotive tires are a leading source of microplastics so EVs aren't exactly a darling angel, but getting to work has become a 500 billion a year industry in America and framed in such a way that people are debating which car is better for the environment when they're all horrible compared to mass transit. Because capitalism thrives on frivolity and consumption. That's the real crux

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[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (16 children)

Over the longterm, and they also require a lot less maintenance because they don't have to deal with mini-explosions from combustion generating excess heat and stress. The problem is in the battery, and the industry hasn't even scratched the surface for solutions.

I see trucks carrying butane tanks all the time, where are the trucks carrying EV battery replacements? There aren't because the industry wants to charge extra for fixed installation ones depending on capacity and charging capacity and there is absolutely no profit incentive that offsets other losses to standardize battery systems in a way they can be easily extensible or replaceable.

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[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

Its about 40% more power efficient per mile but theres a couple of other trade-offs, still better yeah.

[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 30 points 4 days ago (6 children)

can you really blame us?

let me run through the last 8 years of American history with four words, "we were lied to". doesn't matter from whom, doesn't matter what. we're constantly being lied to. truth is, it's been true for longer than 8 years, but the last 8 have been especially transparent.

we're learning that the upper echelon only trusts the American public to do three things; consume, produce, and die. if you can't even do that for them, you're removed as an undesirable.

so yeah, trust in the system is broken. it's going to take at least a generation or two just to repair it ** if they work on it**.

I can't fault anyone who's untrusting of a system that continuously covers lie after lie with more lies.

[–] JackFrostNCola@lemmy.world 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

8 Years?

How long did fossil fuel companies know about climate change?
How long did the fuel industry know about the effects of leaded petrol?
How long did cigarette companies know about links to cancer?
How long did pharma companies know about opioid addiction risk?
How long did social networking companies know about psychological manipulation?
How long did the sugar lobby know about their links to diabetes and obesity?
How long did the manufacturing companies know about PFAS and microplastics?

I would say you have always been lied to.

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[–] celsiustimeline@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Of course they're cleaner. As long as your electricity isn't coming from coal, you're doing better by the environment than an ICE.

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 34 points 4 days ago

Even if your energy comes from coal they're still more efficient.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

zombie engineer voice "traiiiiiins"

[–] ninekeysdown@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Because we Americans are easily swayed by propaganda, unfortunately.

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