A 2001 movie about a 1927 novel set in 1863.
What fucking year do they want to go back to??
Edit: And the Gangs are Anglo-Protestant vs Irish Catholic??? I fucking hate it here.
this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2024
275 points (97.6% liked)
News
22838 readers
6132 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
if he’s trying to prove white people have a history of racial violence he’s making a pretty good point.
you're not going back?
Has anybody ever seen the movie “Gangs of New York?” That’s what I’m talking about. We know that when you have these massive ethnic enclaves forming in our country, it can sometimes lead to higher crime rates. .... things like what we’ve done over the last few years, which is have 20-25 million illegal aliens just setting up shop here with no control, no enforcement, and no real ability to police what’s going on. That is a disaster.
Worth reading the whole quote, the article goes right to it.
So now he's in favor of diversity?
He's in favor of diversity as long as you make a big deal about it with a dog whistle. Like when you tell people that your wife obviously isn't white.
I think he's more on the removing them side of things
No, he's willing to tolerate different shades of skin as long as everybody lives and speaks and votes and in every way acts how he wants.
I doubt he's that open-minded. He's one bottle of whiskey away from suggesting concentration camps for minorities and "woke" people
Massive ethnic enclaves
What does he think white Americans are? North America was doing just fine before the Europeans came.
Counting people here illegally is admittedly a challenge but Pew thinks there are about 11M undocumented immigrants from anywhere. Meanwhile there are about 60M Hispanics in the US including citizens and legal residents of which about 20M were born elsewhere.
He sounds like he's either conflating all foreign born or more likely yet just making up a scary number.
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/fact-sheet/latinos-in-the-us-fact-sheet/
One of the things I have not seen explored much, is the degree to which this new crop of "Conservatives" has bought into the notion that what makes you American is not a commitment to certain ideas and institutions, but rather adherence to certain cultural practices, invariably white and either rural or hazy suburban reflections of the rural.
To somebody like J.D. Vance, it's okay to erode democratic norms, because that doesn't threaten America. To him, being properly American is a deeply banal cultural heritage: stupid shit like liking baseball, pickup trucks, and Diet Mountain Dew. Anything that is counter to that might be grudgingly tolerated because proper Americans are such great ~~Volk~~ folks, but they must know their place and not insist on any public role in the future of the country. If there's too many un-American people doing shit like eating tacos or having drag shows or listening to rap or not going to a megachurch, then maybe a little voter suppression here and a few lynch mobs there is a small price to pay to ensure "real" Americans can continue to live without having to acknowledge neighbors that are visibly different from them. Hell, they're such lovely Americans that they may even be okay with the color of your skin, so long as literally everything else you do comports with their expectations, Usha.
If there's something special about America, it's just that it has the bones and the diversity to support a pluralistic culture where everyone could be an equal contributor to what it means to be "American." These assholes know they don't have the raw numbers to run things any longer, so they're using the political inertia and bullshit to try to ensconce a true apartheid state where a minority of frightened, insular white people dictate policy for everyone.
It's gross, and it's deeply scary. And I say that as a pretty boring cis het white guy who grew up in the suburbs of northeast Florida, kinda likes Diet Mountain Dew, and has owned two pickup trucks in his lifetime.
I think in most cases they use petty culture bullshit to distract people from more concrete material concerns. They do it quite intentionally, and know what really matters. However, in the case of Vance I think you're probably right. He's an empty vessel who can only grasp superficial shiny things. I don't care what fancy fuckin' school he went to. He's just another "clever dumb" guy, like the rank and file rubes in the lower echelons of the cult.
I think in most cases they use petty culture bullshit to distract people from more concrete material concerns. They do it quite intentionally, and know what really matters.
That's what all of it is. Political theatre. Smoke and mirrors. It's performance art that the crowd goes wild for, while the real changes are discussed behind closed doors and are executed in the senate, the house and the supreme court.
I don't know many people who are happy with the recent supreme court decisions, everyone seems to be upset with the senate and the house.... and all the while the masses clamor for the figurehead in the oval office who rambles constantly and peddles the lies his base wants to hear. He is enforcing loyalty by establishing the precedent that you're either with us or the enemy. He politically assassinates the people in his own party for 'disloyalty' because he has no following outside of it to do so. He pushes policies and even openly admits he wants to be a dictator. He claims that he wants to literally attack the political opponents on all sides should he regain power and exonerate his little militia that tried to overthrow the democratic process of the last presidential election.
It's just wild. How people can be so blind to how it all works is simply beyond me. How this comes down to a popularity contest and a vote of being a racist bigot vs being open to compromise and accept people as they are is beyond me. I've never had less faith in the human race than I do today.
I'm sure there's a very healthy strain of those who simply will glom onto anything that protects their monetary interests, but the "true believers" have a very different feel than they used to, where they no longer are as interested in "winning American politics" as they are in reshaping the discussion of what actually "counts" as American. Maybe it's always been there, and is just coming out in force as the country's evolving demographics mean that "normal" American culture will no longer have quite the same prominence and just be one more part of the tapestry. Ironically, if they doubled down on protecting minority rights and democratic institutions, their "way of life," or at least the less toxic aspects of it, would be healthier long term.
One of the things I have not seen explored much, is the degree to which this new crop of "Conservatives" has bought into the notion that what makes you American is not a commitment to certain ideas and institutions, but rather adherence to certain cultural practices, invariably white and either rural or hazy suburban reflections of the rural.
I think more and more centrists are buying into this, also. There's a growing call for abandoning multiculturalism because groups aren't integrating enough, which I feel is precisely a cultural practice definition of nationality. "London isn't for the English anymore!" they say, for example.
JD Vance puts his cast iron in the dishwasher pass it on
Okay, we've started crossing over from 'weird' into 'inhuman' territory now.
I am sure Martin Scorsese is thrilled to hear that his film is being used as an excuse to persecute immigrants.
Racism and cleanup in the furniture aisle
My wife often says she can't understand any woman who votes R these days. I am not a PoC (nor is my wife) but I can't fathom how any PoC can vote R these days. (or any days since the southern strategy really)
There's a lot of stupid people out there.
Rather, I'd say there are many immigrant groups with culturally conservative values (think Hispanic Catholics, BJP-aligned Indian immigrants, conservative Muslims, etc.) as well as certain more religious and patriarchal Black communities, that have a lot in common with the Republicans on social issues, and might be willing to overlook their racism if they find the Democrats' stance on those issues unacceptable. Think also of expat communities that came to America on the heels of Communist revolutions in their home countries and have a reflexive hatred of even vaguely left-ish politics.
In a sick way, we're lucky that the GOP's embrace of racial hatred pushes as many people away as it does, because if they'd let that go they'd have a much broader base amongst minorities.
There's a hope that if you out-white the white people, maybe you'll be safe. And the extremist right loves nothing more than a self-loathing minority willing to voice the master narrative. It helps then politically and it viscerally demonstrates ideological domination over a person.
For instance, a man saying women belong in the home as breeding vessels under the domination of a man is not as powerful as a woman saying the same thing. Roughly equivalent when it's a racial/ethnic minority voicing white nationalist/anti-immigrabt/racist rhetoric.
The fact is, when you feel forced to choose between physical violence committed against you and/or your loved ones and structural oppression being enacted against the same, it's not an easy choice.
It is the goal of fascism to attempt to replace political discourse with the rhetoric of real or threatened violence, which then creates the conditions where that seems like the only available options.
People toss around the word fascism haphazardly all the time, especially online. But this is fundamentally what it means: oppress yourself and/or consent to your own oppression under threat of violence.
"It's true because a movie based on this Italian dude's possibly drug-abetted imagination taught me about DiCaprio's rabbit ancestors.
And glass fucking eyes!"
-- Couch Dolphin
JD Vance comes up with the amazing revelation that 19th century New York City had a lot of crime.
Is he unaware that the antagonist of that movie was a nativist?
I think he might lose the vote if the people with Irish ancestry...
... at a police association, of all places 🤦♂️
a data driven man of science
There's a hope that if you out-white the white people, maybe you'll be safe. And the extremist right loves nothing more than a self-loathing minority willing to voice the master narrative. It helps them politically and it viscerally demonstrates ideological domination over a person.
For instance, a man saying women belong in the home as breeding vessels under the domination of a man is not as powerful as a woman saying the same thing. Roughly equivalent when it's a racial/ethnic minority voicing white nationalist/anti-immigrabt/racist rhetoric.
The fact is, when you feel forced to choose between physical violence committed against you and/or your loved ones and structural oppression being enacted against the same, it's not an easy choice.
It is the goal of fascism to attempt to replace political discourse with the rhetoric of real or threatened violence, which then creates the conditions where that seems like the only available options.
People toss around the word fascism haphazardly all the time, especially online. But this is fundamentally what it means: oppress yourself and/or consent to your own oppression under threat of violence in the name of the State, which is itself directed with absolute authority by a singular or concentrated ruler or authority.
I mean he's not completely wrong. That did happen over 100 years ago. We closed Ellis Island since then. So it's kinda painfully out of date. I don't think our current immigration problem resembles that movie.
Listen, he's in the Natives gang. He's one of the good ones. Sucks off that guy with the glass eye though.
Mediaite - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for Mediaite:
MBFC: Left - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: Mostly Factual - United States of America
Wikipedia about this source
Media Bias Fact Check | bot supportSearch topics on Ground.News
https://www.mediaite.com/election-2024/jd-vance-cites-gangs-of-new-york-movie-while-claiming-ethnic-enclaves-lead-to-higher-crime-rates/