this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2024

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162

Protesters storm Israeli military bases after soldiers detained for alleged abuse of Palestinian prisoners (www.nbcnews.com)

submitted 1 month ago by Oofnik@kbin.earth to c/news@lemmy.world

9 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Far-right lawmaker Zvi Sukkot appeared to be among those rioting after at least nine soldiers were detained on suspicion of “severe abuse of a detainee.”

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[–] retrospectology@lemmy.world 70 points 1 month ago (3 children)

This is illustrative of why I have no faith in Israel to actually behave as a liberal democracy the way its allies pretend it is.

It's not just that they temporarily have a far-right administration as part of some cycle between liberalism and conservativism, the population itself is overwhelmingly far right and supports apartheid. The only thing that upsets them about what's happening in Gaza is that the Israeli government clearly doesn't care about getting the hostages back. The wholesale slaughter of innocent people does not bother most Israelis in the least, many of them see it as a positive.

There is no internal opposition to the far right in Israel, and the country should be geopolitically categorized the same as we categorize Russia, China or any other hardcore authoritarian state. It's not a democracy.

[–] FelixCress@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago

temporarily have a far-right administration as part of some cycle between liberalism and conservativism, the population itself is overwhelmingly far right

If you see a Nazi, say "nazi".

[–] Carmakazi@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

In a more just world they'd be treated like Milosevic's Serbia.

[+] Ferrous@lemmy.ml -7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Funny how the points in your middle paragraph could just as easily be applied to America.

Israeli zionist fascism is the result of Liberal democracy both in Israel, America, and beyond.

[https://truthout.org/articles/fascism-is-possible-not-in-spite-of-liberal-capitalism-but-because-of-it/](Fascism Is Possible Not in Spite of Liberal Capitalism, but Because of It)

[–] retrospectology@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Israeli fascism is not a result of democracy...it's a colonial project born from the pre-war mentality of Europe and the preceding centuries of monarchy and despotism. It is, fundementally, anti-democratic.

Israel and the US are indeed different. The US, regardless of its problems with its right-wing and the right's support of Israel, is not an apartheid state and there is meaningful internal opposition to the far-right in the US (unlike Israel, or Russia, or China).

You're trying to conflate democracy and capitalism, which really makes me question your motives.

[+] Ferrous@lemmy.ml -8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You're putting words in my mouth. I am not claiming democracy led to Israeli zionism. I am claiming that liberalism did.

Make no mistake: I am not attempting to conflate democracy and capitalism. I am making the claim that the two are incompatible. If anyone is trying to conflate capitalism and democracy, it is you.

I'm not going to get into the weeds with you about how democratic Israel is, but it's clear to anyone with a basic understanding of liberalism that Israel is indeed a country based on liberalism values.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Basic_Law:_Human_Dignity_and_Liberty&diffonly=true

The values espoused in Israeli basic law are textbook liberalism:

protection of private property
protection of personal liberties
freedom of movement
Supreme rule of law
guarantees of no violations of enshrined rights

Israel is a textbook liberal state, and its withering down to fascism has already been predicted by leftist theory. Make a venn diagram of the values espoused in Israel's basic laws and values promoted in classic liberalism, and you have a circle.

Try to understand the article i referenced earlier, which is the crux of my argument. Liberalism enables fascism.

[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Ummmm, those are all right-wing tenants, not left-wing. Are you using the US definition of liberal like Democrats or other left-wing idealogies, or are you using it like Australians where it is closer to Republicans?

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago

Least rabid zionists

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