this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2024
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Even from people that never lived in a communist state

edit: im 17 and i hate communism

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[–] dragontamer@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Lemmy, the social network, started off as a leftist hangout spot.

From the perspective of "Open Source developers who are anti-Reddit pro-Fediverse", it makes a lot of sense for Leftist/Communist and anti-corporation leaning people to hang out.

After all, the more extreme the viewpoint, the more driven to action (ie: write tens-of-thousands of lines of code and release for free) people get. In some regards, its the nature of Open Source + volunteer effort to attract a more extreme ideology. IE: Free Software is driven by ideology, not by money. So you get ideological people, especially when the software is small and niche.

The July 2023 Reddit Blackout was a big challenge for Lemmy's old community and the new community, as the new community basically "invaded" a large scale leftist hangout spot. But hopefully we all learn to work together and the nature of our neighbors moving forward.

I think anyone here (likely everyone?) is at least on the anti-corporate anti-Reddit side of the discussion. Which is enough of an alliance to keep us together, for now.


It does mean that we'll have to keep up with the far-left old-timers on this network who wish to push their viewpoints. But they are the legacy and the start of Lemmy in some respects, even as the hypergrowth (starting in July 2023) has moderated the community pretty severely.

[–] SouthEndSunset@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I don’t see the problem with people having communist views…capitalism isn’t great.

[–] djsoren19@yiffit.net 1 points 3 months ago

Yeah, the problem is that you have instances like Hexbear and Lemmy.ml that tread more into tankie territory, where if you argue anything less than the complete annihilation of the West and hail China, you're likely to get harassed. I think rational people can agree that there's a pretty gap between "The current system is corrupt" and "anyone who thinks differently than me should die,' but I've seen plenty of irrational leftists.

[–] dragontamer@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I mean, I don't have much problem with people disagreeing with me. But I'm pretty openly pro-capitalist, though I'm not a dumbass libertarian.

I recognize the need for the "capitalist edge cases" (externalities, monopolies, etc. etc.) that must be regulated and fixed for the system to work. I also recognize that we've failed to regulate externalities (ex: CO2 emissions), and failed to regulate monopolies / anticompetitive behavior (see Google).

So I'm a "capitalism works, but only if we work to make it work" kind of person. I think at the moment, Reddit and many other social networks are falling into the well known and well studied failures of raw capitalism, but somehow today's society has forgotten all the 1910s era solutions that we did (ex: Jungle, etc. etc.) where we regulated the hell out of the shitty behavior and fixed the most blatant problems, for the better of America.

We just gotta do the same thing today.


Overall, I accept that the commies / tankies were here first, and the history of Lemmy makes it clear why that happened.

[–] Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

So I’m a “capitalism works, but only if we work to make it work” kind of person. I think at the moment, Reddit and many other social networks are falling into the well known and well studied failures of raw capitalism, but somehow today’s society has forgotten all the 1910s era solutions that we did (ex: Jungle, etc. etc.) where we regulated the hell out of the shitty behavior and fixed the most blatant problems, for the better of America.

Right there with you.

We just gotta do the same thing today.

We also HAVE to teach the kids how to protect it better than people did 100 years ago. Most of our problems today stem from people voting to remove "useless red tape" (that was put there for damn good reasons).

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago

The Marxist answer to why the red tape is removed is not because people directly vote for it, but that the State serves the bourgeoisie.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

Multiple reasons.

  1. Lemmy was crested by and is maintained by Marxist-Leninists.

  2. Lemmy's structure and rejection of the Profit Motive is in line with Communist ideals, and attracts Communists and other leftists over Reddit, which is Capitalist.

  3. FOSS in general is supported by Communists and Anarchists.

[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Be careful where you tread here. You must be careful to separate "communists" (people who believe in economic reorganization away from the power of capital) and "tankies" (those who support corrupt regimes that project the illusion of communism).

There are indeed quite a few communists and various other alt-camp political spectrum believers on here. They do have quite liberal beliefs but don't typically cause much of a fuss, because rational people can coexist with differing beliefs... and i dont mind them one bit. But the tankes, like lemmygrad, hexbear, etc, do stir up an anti-west "commie propaganda"fuss every chance they get, without being related to actual communism, especially if one mentions a hot button like Israel or Ukraine. And if you get into an argument with a tankie, they will just sling mud on you and call you a Nazi.

The cool part is, you can filter a lot of the chaff by just blocking the ugly instances from your user settings page (since Lemmy supports that now), blocking frequent flyers, and trimming/moving your subscribed community list to other, often smaller instances. A minimal amount of effort VASTLY increases the quality of content you'll see on lemmy.

[–] ieatmeat@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Especially people who never lived in a communist state

[–] rekabis@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Especially people who never lived in a communist state

That’s a rather impossible requirement, considering that all “communist states” to date have been oligarchic autocracies that were just as much about communism as they were democratic.

Real communism is market ownership by the people, and not some elite cabal of politicians or capitalists. And a top-down planned economy is pretty much anti-communism, as it violates the very fundamentals of communism as being worker-driven.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago

I think you should read Marx. State planning is definitely in line with Communism, the state is of the Workers and not a separate entity in Socialism and Communism.

[–] geissi@feddit.de 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Communism is by definition a society without a state, so nobody has ever lived in a communist state and I doubt there has ever been a communist society in recorded history.

[–] MrEff@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That is at a 'state' level, there are still smaller level communist places to live. Like where the word 'Commune' comes from and what communism was derived from and attempted to expand into. There are communes all over the world. US included. There is a famous one in London, lots of large ones in Spain. They are communities that exist in their own bubble of micro economics within their larger communities of normal living. You should look it up. They are interesting and normally very appealing.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago

Comminism, along Marxist lines, is meant to have a World Repunlic. It will have a government, but not a state.

Communes are more along Anarchist lines.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago

Comminism isn't anarchic, Anarcho-Communism is. While it's true that Communism has never been reached, it isn't because government remained. The State in Marxian terms refers to the mechanisms by which one class oppresses the other, once class is abolished there need not be a state.

Communism was always meant to be a world republic.

[–] pocketman_stuck@lemmy.eco.br 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I've lived all my life under capitalism and I hate it.

I've read Marx, (for real, grab the book and read it!) and I see the dude does have a point.

[–] Vitaly@feddit.uk 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I strongly recommend you to read Animal Farm, it's very easy to understand

[–] Custoslibera@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

I’ve read it.

Orwell was socialist my dude.

Ever read one of his other books Down and Out in Paris and London?

It helps explain why he is a socialist.

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Because there are a lot of communists on lemmy?

Some can be very annoying. If you haven't blocked hexbear, I highly recommend it. They got exiled from reddit years ago and have been stewing in a tankie echo chamber ever since.

[–] Sootius@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

90% of the shit spouted about Hexbear is just baseless nonsense. Soon as you actually try to have a good faith discussion, they're hecka cool.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago

They're abrasive kinda like Twitch Chat, but many are reasonable.

[–] Vitaly@feddit.uk 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Guys please check the list of the communist countries and come back to me to tell if you want to live in there, ok?

[–] Hikermick@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You're getting down voted but no one has answered you.

[–] Vitaly@feddit.uk 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm being down voted for having a good point but they don't like facts

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago

You don't have a good point, that's the problem.

Fundamentally, why do you believe Communists exist, and what do they want? We can start from there.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago

Desiring Communism isn't because people overwhelmingly desire one form of production over another, the draw is for what these modes of production allow for and who they benefit.

It'd be cool to live in an AES country, sure, but what would be even better is to transition existing Capitalist states towards Socialism. Having more international trade between like-minded Socialist countries would benefit these countries massively.

[–] AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm beginning to see why people call lemmy.world the Reddit of the fediverse

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago

It's a microcosm of Reddit, in a lot of bad ways IMO.

  1. Reddit is clearly declining due to enshittification, so more ideological types leave. Radical liberals, Marxists, Anarchists, and so forth leave for other places.

  2. Leftists and people who have more niche interests like programming, Linux, FOSS, Piracy, Star Trek, LGBTQIA+, or other such unique interests go to more specific instances, while people seeking a replacement for Reddit go to the largest generalist instance.

The consequences of 1 and 2 are that Lemmy.world is filled with ideological liberals, but typically not leftists, FOSS enthusiasts, Piracy nerds, Star Trek, or other unique interests. All that's left is the ideological generalist crowd, which is an echo chamber more defined by what it isn't than by what it is.

[–] m13@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

“I’m 17 and I hate communism”

😂 enough said. Come back when you’re a bit older and a bit wiser.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You don't even have to be wise to understand the problems communism has, it only helps

So your comment doesn't make sense.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What problems does Communism have?

[–] Rhoeri@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It doesn’t fucking work.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago
[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Why do you hate communism?

Nobody has ever actually done real communism on a national scale. The closest is probably the USSR, but that was a disaster because it was an authoritarian dictatorship that funneled money and power to the top. People only got token representation, the people were not actually in charge of anything, they got no real say in their leadership. Doesn’t matter that it was structured like communism says it should be, the reality of it was anything but communism.

Real communism would probably be pretty decent. There wouldn’t be too much to hate about it other than what you’d dislike in any government.

The problem is the humans running it. It’s a constant battle against power-hungry and self-serving people being in charge, just like any government, and no nation espousing communism has ever managed to prevent authoritarianism and basic kleptocratic people from settling in and running the show.

  • I am not for communism or here to espouse any virtues it might have. The concept of communism certainly has appeal and presents many benefits, however the reality of implementation and human nature virtually guarantee it will never achieve its intended form.
[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Real communism will never work for the same reason a completely free market would never work.

Too many people are greedy and selfish.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago

People are shaped by their environment, people seem greedy and selfish because of Capitalism. Primitive communism existed for thousands of years, and people were cooperative and communal.

Why do you believe selfish and greedy people existing in Communism would strain or ruin it?

[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 months ago

It is a communist platform, you will find communists

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

why not? if you'd like a more capitalist experience you can always go to reddit. don't forget to download their shitty app that no longer has competitors.