this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2024

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102

How bike lanes sidelined cyclists: unearthing 190 miles of 1930s cycle lanes (www.globalcyclingnetwork.com)

submitted 2 months ago by HallowellNash@lemmy.world to c/fuck_cars@lemmy.ml

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[–] AnomalousBit@programming.dev 33 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

The explanations provided in this article are the same stupid fucking reasons it’s next to impossible and dangerous to ride a bike in America.

No, a bike is not a car and it should not be treated like one.

No, no one I know wants to hop on a bike and share the same lane as a semi truck or teenager in a lifted truck texting on a phone.

Having a bike lane (preferably separate from the main road) where there is at least some breathing room is the only way most people would even consider it. God forbid you should fall off or crash, you don’t risk losing your life over something that would otherwise be a scraped knee.

GTFO with your bikes are cars bull shit.

[–] Tangentism@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's going to take several generations to remove the shit stain of "vehicular cycling" that John Forester has left behind

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

If you wouldn't trust your child to safely bike the lane, the lane is unsafe for any cyclist is how I like to look at it.

[+] delirious_owl@discuss.online -11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yes, a bike is a car and should be treated like one. I'm tired of assholes like you yelling 'get off the road' or telling me to endanger pedestrians by riding in the sidewalk or mixed use trail or the door lane or the bicycle gutter.

What we need is normal roads with barriers blocking off cars from entering.

Bikes are cars. Treat us like them.

[–] Cort@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

What we need is normal roads with barriers blocking off cars from entering.

Bikes are cars.

So pedestrians only on these roads? Like a sidewalk?

Or are you saying bikes should be treated JUST like cars, except better, with routes that exclude cars?

It sounds like what you want is separated, protected, raised bicycle lanes.

And I'm no fan of rising on the sidewalks, but cycling is literally one of the uses for a mixed use trail.

[–] biddy@feddit.nl 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

delirious_owl is being pretty inflammatory but they make a good point.

All too often a supposed "bike lane" is just built to a worse standard than parallel car lanes. It will have a worse road surface, sharp bends, confusing and long routing, less priority at intersections and traffic lights. Car lanes are the default and bike lanes are squeezed in as an afterthought.

This needs to change, bike lanes should be built to the same or higher standard as roads(although typically bike lanes can be much narrower). Multi lane bike motorways need to be buldozed through neighborhoods. An easy way to do this is just take part or all of an existing road and make it bike only.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Please no more bulldozing neighbourhoods. Bike lanes would be far easier to accomodate in a neighbourhood than a 6+ lane freeway was.

[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

What I'm saying is that in the eyes of the law, bicycles are the same as cars. Bikes belong on roads that are built for vehicular traffic.

I don't want a different type of narrow trail that's raised and windy with roots and trash. I want to use roads that are built to spec for cars. Fortunately, we already have plenty of them. The only problem is that cars are using them too.

If you want to make the road safer for bicycles, then ban vehicles with motors from half the roads. Like NYC and Berkeley have done.

If you don't want to ban cars, then paint a big green stripe down the middle of the furthest right lane with a picture of a bicycle to make it clear to cars that that is the lane for bicycles and cars should pass bicycles in the passing lane. Like what Oakland has done.

[–] apprehensively_human@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Bikes belong on roads that are built for vehicular traffic.

Bikes belong on roads that are built for bikes.

[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online -5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

Roads built for cars are built for bikes.

[–] Tangentism@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

https://roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com

Roads existed before cars & it was cycling organisations that campaigned to have them tarmacked & sealed for everyone's benefit

Pavements were not built for vehicles yet in the UK over 350 people are killed or seriously injured by vehicles mounting it.

[–] loonsun@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Please ride your bike on I-95, I beg of you

[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online -2 points 2 months ago

I have. And on the Autobahn in Germany.

They need to put a green stripe in the right most lanes and say that cars are not allowed in that lane, except for exiting. With extreme speed restrictions.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Roads for cars are built almost exclussively for just cars. Its half the reason this community even exists. Roads speced for bikes wouldn't need to tolerate nearly as much weight nor would they need to be as wide as car lanes. Many intersections would also be served with yields rather than traffic lights as most bike traffic can negotiate intersections easily.

[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That type of logic is why I prefer roads to bike trails.

Motorcycles need the full width of a road, so do bicycles. When engineers lower the specs for bicycles, they are thinking of a child riding 5 kph on a Sunday rec ride, but we need roads designed for cargo bikes hauling a weeks worth of groceries or rebar and cement down hill at 40 kph.

When you make the lanes smaller or don't clean the land of debris or permit sharper turns, you endanger the lives of cyclists. That's not OK. Cyclists are vehicles and our roads should meet the same specs as all roads.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Technically speaking. Motorcycle do not need the full width. It is not uncommon to see them side by side in a single lane.

If your bike max speed is 40kph, thats the slower side of car speeds so the roads could still be designed far differently for bikes.

[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Legally and saftey wise, motorcycles absolutely need the full width of the lane.

Some motorcyclists ride dangerously. Who knew?

But the motorcyclists uses all 3 thirds of the lane for different purposes. Another vehicle should never enter their lane, for their safety. Same with bicyclists.

[–] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

They ride thousands of electric scooters on the sidewalks in China daily and rarely does anyone ever get hurt. Maybe you just suck ass at riding.

[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Lots of people do get hurt.

[–] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

How much time have you spent in China?

[–] delirious_owl@discuss.online 14 points 2 months ago

Jesus they don't need to spend 100,000 pounds. Just block every other road to cars and you'll have a perfect happy medium between car roads and bicycle roads.

[+] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml -26 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Bikes aren't pedestrians and shouldn't share any aspect of public space with them. I don't care beyond that. Additionally if a biker ever complains about pedestrians being "in the bike lane," the biker should be jailed, their bike impounded, and be forced to ride one of those 1800's Big wheel bikes.

[–] wesley@yall.theatl.social 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I share space with pedestrians every day on multi use paths. I think bikes and pedestrians are perfectly compatible.

It's really just the cars that don't seem compatible with anything else...

[–] Grass@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 months ago

No that's fucking stupid. If pedestrians are in the bike lane they shouldn't even be outside and its a mystery how they didn't die in childhood by walking out in the middle of a highway before that. Get off the phone or get off the drugs or something. Just like cars shouldn't be on the sidewalk or the bike lane. Everyone stays in their own lane and pays attention.

While I'm at it, your mom should be impounded and she is a big wheel bike.