Interesting to see western outlets change their narratives this quick.
Well anyway, hope this actually happens and an end to this war is finally negotiated.
this post was submitted on 25 Feb 2024
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What exactly changed here?
It's gone from blocking all negotiations with Russia while saying "Ukraine can achieve a military victory" to "sanctions will overthrow Russia" to "sanctions on Russia aren't working" to "Ukraine can't militarily win" to now acknowledging that this can only end via negotiations.
Well, by "quick" I meant the last two stages happening in western outlets in just the last month.
These comments are cute.
Watch how quick reactions change when you ask, "Which states should the US surrender to prevent the Russians invading?"
The thin veil of your "might-makes-right" argument is sad.
There's an easy way to end this war: either kill Putin or have Putin resign.
Great man theory and its consequences
Fallacy.
Literally not a fallacy, your reasoning hinges on Great Man Theory. The two most popular parties (the second being the communist party) both mainly support the war and the assassination of a sitting President would not, in fact, make the country more dove-ish. It's a cartoon view of the conflict that the war spawned from Putin's brain and is his personal pet project that he is subjecting the rest of Russia to.
Bot.
Not literally but if somebody programmed the Lib-O-Matic 3000 it would be indistinguishable.
I'll bite: why do you think that would end the war?
Because it takes away the puppet Russia has been building and nurturing this whole time.
I'll be honest, I don't get what you're saying
He's scared to say the NAFO-fied spelling of Putin, knowing the wrath of the incoming maelstrom of pigpoopballs
Fuck it I dont have anything better to do.
Who is "russia" that has been working behind the scenes to build up Putin.
This is magical thinking. "If the enemy were to simply disappear, everything would be fixed."
You have to engage with the reality of the situation.
Holy shit I literally just made a comment saying maybe libs would move on from this branded catchphrase and then I scroll down one co.ment and here you are.
Serves me right for thinking libs would ever learn to interact with reality.
That's easy to say, I don't think either of those things is easy to do.
He's incredibly popular, along with the war. If he goes, someone else takes his place.
I expect that Russia will avoid peace talks until they see how the American elections turn out (and if the current American government can get over the current roadblocks to arming Ukraine). If Trump wins then either Europe has to compensate for the loss of American support, driving a wedge between Europe and the US, or Europe fails to make up the shortfall and Ukraine has a far weaker hand in negotiations.
I can imagine it's also possible that Ukraine is doing this right now specifically because Russia probably wants to wait for the American elections.
Whatever happens, I wish Ukraine the best of luck. I hope we give them the strength to get either a good deal or a victorious end to the way, whichever they choose to go after
If Trump wins then either Europe has to compensate for the loss of American support
Lol liberals genuinely thinking the GOP isn't just as imperialist. How the hell are you falling for his obvious empty rhetoric?
NATO is central to the imperial core's military. If he ever truly wanted to weaken it (which, again, he obviously doesn't), he'd be replaced like JFK was assassinated for wanting to abolish the CIA. It will never happen via the existing US political system; that only serves to protect capitalism and imperialism.
thinking the GOP isn’t just as imperialist.
Yeah that's not a thing I even came close to saying.
Your comment implied that you thought his statements about not supporting NATO countries that don't spend enough on military weren't just empty rhetoric, no?
There's more than one way to be imperialist
What're you even trying to say lol
That America is perfectly capable of imperialism without supporting Ukraine or even maintaining NATO. It has an enormous military and extremely safe geography. It can afford to pick and choose its friends, and a pivot towards Russia instead of central and western Europe is not going to change any of those prior factors. Russia is not anti-imperialist just because it's doing stuff that NATO doesn't like.
Russia has no real issues continuing the war for another cycle. Term limits destroy America's ability to functionally engage in long-term conflicts without turning them into quagmires.
Support for US wars is bipartisan. The GOP merely pretends they would have managed Ukraine better to pivot to China as an electioneering tool.
It doesn't make any difference, we have no industrial production to fight a peer enemy in a war. All we have is overt nuclear threats and targeted missile assassinations (Soleimani's fate) or WWII-style mass strategic bombing civilian populations (Palestine, Syria, Yemen). Look at you, fools. You've been obsessing over cherry-picked footage to convince yourselves Ukrainians experience only tactical successes. Where are your tactics videos now? You ignored economics and politics.
You thought Twitter could win this war? Tying Russians and their families to trees with saran wrap and pulling their pants down in broad daylight on Telegram? It only enraged them. They won't stop now.
You have zero understanding of operations, let alone strategy,,,,,,, I will speak nothing of the political goals of NATO or Russia alike. LOL. You are completely useless at anything other than smugly cheering for death.
When did I say anything that your middle two paragraphs are about? It's like you've gone off on a rant against someone else and just decided to post it here anyway
Of course the GOP is generally keen on war. The reality is that they're blocking America from arming Ukraine right now. Whether it's an electoral strategy or a preference for Russia over Ukraine or anything else, that's what is happening.
Was bipartisan, keyword was. Trump is an isolationist, and both has an continues to run on a platform of appeasement and withdrawal. See withdrawing for Kosovo for instance. Moreover, support for Russia is probably very high among the maga crowd as it has been heavily marketed as a white christian ethnostate pushing back against the ‘woke agenda’.
If the GOP was so interested in supporting Ukraine, why did they delay any action for months and constantly attach absurd border riders to an bill that has nothing to do with the border.
The idea that Nato lacks the industrial capacity to fight Russia in a peer conflict is so absurd I don’t even know where to start. The US provided Ukraine 31 tanks, at the same time it sold 116 to Poland. Simultaneously, the US provided some long range strike capability to Ukraine in the form of ATACMs -A, a weapon system that forced the Russian air force to withdraw all quick reaction forces from bases in occupied Ukraine, including Crimea, and which ceased production in 1997 owing to haveing been replaced by more modern designs and which was being broken down for spare parts when the decision was made to send some.
How many systems that the US considers modern enough to use itself have been sent? How many Aegis systems? How many Tomahawks? How many of the thousands of F35s that have been built in the last decade have been sent, let alone F22s?
Maybe the Patriot system, of which Ukraine has three batteries, putting it on par with Jordon and the UAE? Japan alone has six whole battalions of Patriots, and there hardly the largest user.
Russia is not the Soviet Union, that included over a half a dozen major industrial nations that are now Nato members.
Russia is not a peer to the US or China, it is a hypercapitalist dictatorship with a lot of 60s and 70s tech laying around rusting in fields, and which self proclaimed opponents are fighting to a standstill using decades old scrap and in the US case, a line item worth less than a quarter of what the federal government spent on subsidizing health insurance providers alone.
We dont think Twitter with win this war, mearly the basic economic scale of a small dictatorship trying to pretend it is some great imperial empire by amexing yet another of its neighbors.
But hey, they managed to take Adivka, a town within walking distance of the center of a city that they took in 2014 and which has seen constant fighting since day one. It only took three years and a large donation of shells from North Korea to do it.
Trump is not isolationist you fucking idiot, not even reading the rest. Isolationist assassinations with cruise missiles, huh? Morons all of you.
Isolationism, national policy of avoiding political or economic entanglements with other countries… Isolationism was a common charge leveled at paleoconservatives who rose in response to the statism and internationalism of the neoconservative movement, which dominated the political scene during the presidencies of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and George W. Bush. - Encyclopedia Brittannica
One can withdraw from foreign diplomatic and economic agreements, such as Trump’s first day executive order that withdrew the US from and made China the leader in the the Trans Pasific Parthership, while also favoring assignations. Indeed, using assignation and small, frequent unilateral military action to presue foreign policy Instead of multinational, diplomatic, or economic means is foundational to isolationist foreign power.
If your analysis was correct, this comment chain would convince me that Trump is absolutely the lesser evil. Sadly, he's not as cool as you make him out to be.
How is fuck you, got mine, i’ll take what I want and if you start to say anything anything about it i’ll blow you up posibly the lesser evil over diplomatic negotiations?
What diplomatic ends have been achieved under Biden? The US has explicitly stood against the rest of the world to oppose diplomatically ending the three new military engagements that have started under Biden.
And even then, diplomatic negotiations with whom and for whom? Security agreements with other honky nations to keep Africa from developing? Diplomatic naval bases in the Philippines directly escalating the risk of starting WWIII? I'm sure orphaned Gazan kids will be relieved to know that we have good diplomatic allies in the region.
I'd far prefer an erratic isolationist than someone who uses every opportunity to forcefully impose upon other nations. But again, Trump is no better in that regard.
Um, ever heard of the Kyoto Protocol, Paris Agreement, and UNFCCC? All treaties that Trump either attempted to or successfully backed out of and which Biden rejoined. Slow and too little yes, but all of which do create a legally binding commitment to make at least some progress. Maybe the IPCC, which is heavily reliant on Amarican government agencies like NASA and NOAA to gather the data they make thier reports on, as well as funding for studies?
How about building and distributing green technologies to fight climate change, most of which require economic cooperation with foreign countries to both build and distribute.
How about the 50 to 60 Billion a year in humanitarian aid and free food that the US provides to the poorest parts of Central Africa and South America that were most heavily damaged by colonialism? You know, programs that save millions of families from dying of starvation and which Trump either attempted to or successfully stopped, and which Biden has re-entered and expanded. You know, the sorts of programs isolationists like Trump primary fight as reparations.
I’m certain to know the Gazan kids will be thrilled to know that the person who is actively ordering Amarican drone strikes on them to posture to his base is really a cool dude because he also cut off food to Guatemala and Ethiopia.
I hope that Ukraine and Russia can agree on not drawing new borders.
Given that from my understanding the Ukrainian constitution requires any change in the nation’s borders to win a public referendum, and that the current polls show 3-5 support for such in a mock referendum, something tells me this isn’t going to do much more than buy time for Ukraine to integrate more modern weapons into its arsenal.
What a novel idea, actually inviting the other side of the war you're fighting to the peace talks instead of having peace talks with ukraine, the American secretary of defense, and half a dozen venture capitalists to decide what ukraine is and isn't allowed to concede.
Maybe they'll actually come up with sonething better than libs favorite line "Here's our peace proposal, Russia packs up and abandons a two year long military operation in which they're accomplishing everyrhing they said they set iut to do and they go back to Russia for no reason other than I've been whining about it on reddit forever."