this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
923 points (95.9% liked)
linuxmemes
21603 readers
659 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
- These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't fork-bomb your computer.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Well it does technically, the issue we're talking about is how it's packaged, one you extract the package the software will work just the same (assuming there aren't any version mismatches between kernel modules). DEBs (Debian based distros) and RPMs (RedHat based distros) are the two biggest package formats, the next common format is a tar ball.
Add to this, this gives birth to more modern packaging format like flatpak, appimage, and snap, that works across all distro with proper permission control.
Now for most graphical apps, you just search on the app store and click install, like a iphone user.
Don't mention the S-word here, some people might come out of their basement to tell you how it's the worst thing since proprietary software.
I DON'T WANT THIS
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/59dQ-5sjDLc
Iphone is most locked-down anti-consumer pile of garbage and this is how you defend it?
There are different aspect to the same product. IPhone is lockeddown and aniconsumer, but it doesn't mean every aspect of it is not worth taking a lesson from.
In order for linux to have mass apeal, it will need to be simple by default, and that is where the app store model shines, you just search and click install, everyone can figure that out.
But that doesn't imply linux has to be lockdown and anticonsumer like iphone. If you want to compile your own kernel, you should have freedom to do so.
This is how linux works for last 30 years...
Except now you dont need to worry about outdated software even on a super stable base. You get proper permission control and a mispackaged app cannot break the entire system.
How did this come up in discussion?
Anyway. Mispackaged app may also include broken permission control.
Because permission control is what most people expect on phone application, which is another way linux has great default UX that is similar to what happens on phones.
Finally, I don't think a mispackaged app is supposed to be able to break out of the application sandbox, unless some bug is exploited.
Unless you are referring to the fact that some app are packaged with overly-permissive default permissions. But most people can change the default permission, and only grant permissions that makes sense.
At least one of mentioned formats(AppImage) is regular executable. There is no need to break out of sandboxing when maintainer didn't put it in sandbox in the first place.
Anyway, mainline distros have selinux or apparmor profiles. Sanboxing exists outside of three yet another "universal" package formats.
You mean people who package or end users?
I mean user can manage permissions to override the default, like apps on other platforms.
Basically how it is and was before mega-binaries.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/shorts/59dQ-5sjDLc
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I think you might be talking about two group of Linux user. I think majority of the user realized that shared dependency is not scalable in the recent couple years, yet there are still a loud minority that oppose dupilicated dependencies that exists in these universal formats.
Finally, I think the three universal package formats provide better sandboxing support than msi. But appx in windows are very much inline with these packaging formats.
Explain yourself.
Kernel develipers, libraries developers, compiler developers, distro maintainers, mirrors hosters, anyone whose system runs not on few terabytes disk and gigabit internet.
I heard some geniuses put entire graphical drivers into snap/flatpak/appimages.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Different app depends on different version of the underlying softwares. In the old days distro packages apps, however it would cause dependency hell.
Hence with the development in containers, universal packaging format prevails, where each app is packaged with all of its dependencies. so that the system dont need to maintain the dependency of every single app people want to use.
On different ranges of versions. Usually something like "1.2 or newer". With few exceptions that break ABI every year(looking at you, Boost) or 11 times a month(it is rust, who would have guessed). If everything was as hard as you described, then there is no way for me to play UT2004 back from, you guessed it, 2004. But I did, and all I needed just to install few 32-bit version of libraries and run it with OSS(very old audio api) emulation.
No, task of package manager is to solve dependency hell
We had 2 universal packaging formats, now we have 5 universal packaging formats and two container types.
Which in case of UT2004 means packaged with all exploits back from 2004.