this post was submitted on 06 Apr 2025
422 points (94.7% liked)

Ask Lemmy

30724 readers
1900 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Example: I believe that IP is a direct contradiction of nature, sacrificing the advancement of humanity and the world for selfish gain, and therefore is sinful.

~~Edit: pls do not downvote the comments this is a constructive discussion~~

Edit2: IP= intellectal property

Edit3: sort by controversal

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] emberinmoss@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I'll just keep being a nuisance here and say it. I genuinely do like this instance but I can't make sense of the infatuation for the AI here when isn't this part of the problem? AI "art" generators are fundamentally wrong and harmful to the artistic community. Artists are part of the nerd crowd too. We studied like crazy to hone our craft. There are a few traumatic historic events that the use of AI art theft machines harken back to. In more recent history, fascist regimes have tried to erase art altogether, or covet it for themselves. The same can be said for colonists, and it was to our chagrin a casually accepted part of Western culture to incorporate all sorts of bastardized appropriations of beautiful things they'd seen that didn't belong to them. It's just something to think about.

At the end of the day, people are thoughtlessly using a machine that takes the hard work of countless artists (of all different walks of life, different classes, backgrounds, mediums) to spit out uncanny, empty slop.

I'll keep saying it. And it may take years to undo this shit if ever. That's fine.

Okay, a pretty decent amount of people feel similarly as I do on this topic, but here I just feel like an outlier at times due to the number of pro-AI slop communities. Then again, I also notice that only a handful of the same people run those communities and contribute to them. I guess it's because we're a smaller community and I'm also a negative Nancy, so I tend to notice those glaring issues more here. I think it's important to get this message across on here, because why do we want to emulate even one ounce of Musk's energy here? Fuck that. Reddit already has their Midjourney sh-stuff. And they are not like us. So, we should strive to be better than Reddit.

[–] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 17 hours ago

You use the term "AI slop" more than once, but honestly I feel like a lot of the "real" art that's shared here is human slop. I guess the thing I would have that most people wouldn't agree with is that most art by humans is shit, and we shouldn't feel like we have to pretend it isn't just so we don't hurt someone's feelings. You ever been on DeviantArt and looked at the newest submissions? Half of it looks like it was finger painted by toddlers.

There's a lot of artists walking around thinking that AI is gonna steal their hard work, when nobody with eyes would want their work hanging on their wall, because it's human slop done by someone with no talent.

[–] GaMEChld@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I kinda feel like all I hear is anti AI talk. Meanwhile I'm in the camp of don't demonize tools, demonize what people do with the tools that's damaging.

As for art, I don't know how to ascribe value to art. The Mona Lisa exists. As do copies of it that are worthless. At what point will the original have no value by virtue of the quality of the copies? Will a molecularly identical copy made with a Star Trek replicator make the original worthless? Or will it always be valued as the original?

[–] Mesophar@pawb.social 2 points 1 day ago

It isn't the "quality" of the piece that makes it more valuable, but the intrinsic quality of being the original. An exact, molecularly identical copy might make that messy, in that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them, but the true original is still the one with the value.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world -2 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

don’t demonize tools,

if the tool builders stole your work to create them, never compensated the creators, didn't even ask them - I suspect you'd feel differently. it's gross and people are like "well, it's just artists what do we need them for?"

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

copying isn't stealing, and modeling isn't even copying.

the greatest threat an artist faces isn't that someone might copy their work, but that no one will want to

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 0 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I get it, you'll care when they get around to stealing your work.

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 11 hours ago (1 children)
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 0 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

oh, so you copied all the answers on your exams?

pfft. quit it kiddo, you're not equipped for this.

[–] GaMEChld@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

... He's not equipped? Your metaphor was nonsensical. Let's say he did copy his exam answers. Who lost their answers as a result?

Hence copying is not stealing.

Additionally, who was harmed by the copying in your example, and how?

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

being willfully ignorant of the harm being done to artists ability to pay their bills and you can't comprehend how it's theft.

damn that's dumb.

[–] GaMEChld@lemmy.world 0 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Who is dumber? The one calling people dumb, or the one unable to answer their questions? Don't use metaphors if you don't understand them or can't explain how they are valid.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

you're happy to steal from people, you just want to call it something else to obfuscate your guilt.

I see this all the time. it's fucking dumb. you're either lying to yourself and deluded, or trying to lie to me.

So to answer your query: you, you're the dumb one.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk, gonna block you now because your inane messages aren't worth the electrons used to transmit their content.

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Be nice and; have fun

Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity

yep, kindly point out where I'm doxing, trolling, sealioning, being racist or toxic. I don't need to be friendly to someone being willfully ignorant, and none of this exchange has met those bars.

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 8 hours ago

if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all

I don’t need to be friendly

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

kindly point out

sealioning

pfft. quit it kiddo, you’re not equipped for this.

toxicity

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago

Sealioning is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential

but ok, if that's your bar for toxicity, shrug. report away.

[–] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I wouldn't. Ideas should be free, and there should be no barriers to them, or ownership considered. If you create a thing, everyone else should be able to use that thing however they wish, and with no limitations, to create their own things. Full stop, no exceptions.

This is why I pirate. I will never consider or acknowledge ownership or license when consuming media, art, or information. If you release an idea to the greater world, then it's my idea, my art, my music, my software, just as much as it's yours as the creator. And I'll do with it whatever I will.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 0 points 11 hours ago

cool story bro.

[–] tatterdemalion@programming.dev 0 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (2 children)

don't demonize tools, demonize what people do with the tools that's damaging

Depends on what tool you're talking about.

Sadly in this case the tool, in its product form, is already in breach of a moral principle, because it is a derivative work and stealing labor without consent.

If you are referring to the GPT algorithms, that's more subtle. We need to figure out how to regulate it better.

[–] GaMEChld@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Is the artist who writes with inspiration from previous works also stealing? Every story draws from other stories. Most art is always a representation of things that explicit consent was not always recorded to create.

This reminds me of Napster days. We can pontificate endlessly over the moral and philosophical arguments. Meanwhile, time is passing and the tools become more commonplace. I just skip to the end and change with the times. The other option is to die with old fashioned beliefs. Neither option is correct, it just is what it is. Which do you prefer?

[–] tatterdemalion@programming.dev 1 points 6 hours ago

You're so right. I guess it doesn't matter what happens between now and the inevitable future. -_-

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

derivative work and stealing labor

no, it's not

[–] tatterdemalion@programming.dev 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

How is it not? The most popular GPT models are trained on copyrighted works.

[–] nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)
[–] tatterdemalion@programming.dev 1 points 12 hours ago

It is in my country.

[–] emberinmoss@sh.itjust.works 1 points 19 hours ago

Saw a question on here, "why would I buy when I can just steal the thing?" I assume it's referring to art. Same reason I don't want to use apple or windows, google. It's corrupt at its core. It contributes to hurting and screwing over people. Buying art from artists or even just downloading another artist's work supports another human because even if you didn't buy it people will still inevitably want to know the artist.

Opensource and art are not so unalike. from my clueless but learning tech newb pov, linux users or any non corporate tech user is doing everything from scratch. The command terminal is their sketchbook.

now ffs let me sleep. I won't reply to any more whataboutisms.