this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2025
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Could you be more concrete? In what relevant way do you think it does not work as an instant messenger? Keep in mind that Delta Chat is not a theoretical thing and it works as well as any other messenger.
Regarding SMTP:
~~That said, it looks like Delta Chat doesn't actually use SMTP, having scanned through the website. Though I'm honestly unsure either way as it was only a scan.~~
Never mind:
PGP is a very curious choice. A quick Google search says a downside of this is that it does not provide "forward secrecy". From the Wikipedia page on forward secrecy, it prevents things like the following.
If an adversary can steal (or obtain through a court order) this static (long term) signing key, the adversary can masquerade as the server to the client and as the client to the server and implement a classic man-in-the-middle attack.
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm guessing part of this is why so many messengers either create a new protocol or choose XMPP
Yes, I really have t looked into this before. I just vaguely remembered jokes about PGP from a security class a while back, so looked it up. It does look like the encryption scheme used in XMPP does solve this issue.
Wikipedia saves the day again:
OMEMO is an extension to the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) for multi-client end-to-end encryption developed by Andreas Straub. According to Straub, OMEMO uses the Double Ratchet Algorithm "to provide multi-end to multi-end encryption, allowing messages to be synchronized securely across multiple clients, even if some of them are offline".[1] The name "OMEMO" is a recursive acronym for "OMEMO Multi-End Message and Object Encryption". It is an open standard based on the Double Ratchet Algorithm and the Personal Eventing Protocol (PEP, XEP-0163).[2] OMEMO offers future and forward secrecy and deniability with message synchronization and offline delivery.
I get that you're using AI directly related to your point, but it's still a lot of shitty AI spam.
Use it for your own research, but don't foist that on us.
I asked specifically for relevant issues and you just link general issues with smtp that have no impact on Delta Chat?
Delta Chat sends encrypted messages over it so that’s irrelevant.
Your phone can run LLMs, it can send a couple packets. Also this “chattyness” can be seen as an advantage as it is extremely robust and works on any network however inconsistent.
Yeah duh? It’s decentralized. You can’t ensure that the recipient doesn’t take down their server?…
Etc. I feel like I’m wasting my time replying to all these because it seems you didn’t even take the time to read them yourself.
I'm here trying to learn about Delta Chat and why you think it's a good app given the drawbacks of the approach they've taken. Over the years there's been an incredible amount of messengers pop up, 90 million from Google alone and none have opted for SMTP. There's surely a reason for that. From what I've learned, mostly thanks to Gemini, because holy fuck the Delta Chat website feels like something from 20 years ago and is purposely vague, the solution that Delta has gone for is just to add more layers. Again, something that the world has repeatedly opted against. I'm trying to understand why it's considered a good idea in this case and why so many teams and startups have decided not to use this methodology until now?
Jesus Christ, being curious shouldn't feel like a chore.
It's considered a good idea because it runs over omnipresent, already-existent, distributed infrastructure. In other words, for this particular chat app, you don't even need to create an account. That is at very least an interesting and noteworthy feature.
So if you don't need to create an account, how do you know you're talking to who you think you're talking to?
I can see this being valuable as a Lemmy style service where I'm sharing information and reading information but want to be anonymous. But not a good service if I want to talk to my mom about a sensitive subject and protect my privacy.
You use your email provider's credentials to log into the app, which then creates an IMAP folder called delta-chat which houses all those conversations.
You'd verify it's your mom by starting a chat with "momoforollo@her.email" she'd verify it's you by making sure it's coming from "orollo@your.email"
As a heads up, the person you're arguing with seems to be using an LLM to generate text.
I would down vote and move on. It's not a real discussion.
Downvote for what? What part is wrong?
Wasting other people's time.
If you want to use an LLM that's fine, but if you're cutting and pasting it into a discussion you should warn other people that it's not human generated.
And most of it isn't wrong, it's just a giant wall of text that's largely irrelevant to the conversation.
Wall of text? I provided information requested and then went back and provided more information to clear up a claim I got wrong. Let's not focus on how we get the information, but rather what the information is. If it's not for you personally, just move on.
Thank you