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2 Oregon men die from exposure in a forest after they went out to look for Sasquatch
(www.nbcnews.com)
this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2024
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It's not them, it's the people who convince them.
It’s kinda like religion though right? Who is anyone to say it’s not true. It’s kind of mean to shit on what other people are into or what they choose to believe as long as they’re not hurting anyone else. There’s no evidence on the Bigfoot topic that we know of at the moment, but there are tons of scientific discoveries that happen. They didn’t know about Lyme disease until 1982.
Should beliefs be separated from state and science decisions - absolutely.
The paranormal is interesting to think about and discuss. There are grifters but there are grifters everywhere, no matter what topic you’re interested in. These guys took it too far but hey that’s humanity for ya - people also die from autoerotic asphyxiation, bungee jumping, and free solo climbing, none of which I’m interested in pursuing for myself.
The people who push books and TV shows and stuff to convince others that Bigfoot exists are absolutely hurting others. This is literally the evidence of that. Unlike the total lack of evidence for Bigfoot. That didn't stop Animal Planet from running a show called "Finding Bigfoot" for nine seasons.
I have no idea why you think they aren't hurting anyone. Do you think these guys wouldn't have died if all that media wasn't made available to them (for a profit)?
I think we can go down a really deep hole of all of the dumb shit that people die from because they believed something false that was sold for a profit. Apart from what we as a society have agreed upon as the most abhorrent opinions/beliefs and have legislatively banned, I’m really not comfortable with branding media or books as dangerous (see all the book banning nonsense going on in the US).
No matter what way you slice it - it’s their choice isn’t it. Adults are allowed to do what they want, even if it’s fringe, and people can’t stop them.
People are allowed to express and sell points of view that I disagree with as long as they’re not inciting violence or directly causing harm to people. People are allowed to listen. I am only responsible for myself and my choices.
And just because these people made poor choices, it doesn’t mean that everyone into the topic would do the same. I think it’s less that they believed in Bigfoot and more that they were unprepared for the wilderness.
No one told them to go into the woods in the dead of winter. They weren’t on a paid wilderness tour. They chose this for themselves and got into trouble. It’s unfortunate that it happened at Christmas.
I have no idea why you think I'm talking about the people who died here. I've tried to make it as clear as I could that I am talking about the people enabling them.
What I’m saying is: adults are responsible for what they believe.
No one can enable an adult to do anything. They are adults who make choices.
Who is anyone to tell people that they can’t publish a book or make a piece of media (as long as the topic is not illegal). That’s some authoritarian shit right there.
So then we should not criminally try people for scams and fraud? Bernie Madoff was innocent?
Also, who said anything about stopping anyone from publishing anything? Please do quote me.
“The people who push books and TV shows and stuff to convince others…” would be the quote.
I think there’s a difference in liability sure. Financial pyramid schemes are where people choose to invest their money but then that money is misappropriated. The scammer takes money for a service and doesn’t do what they said they will do with it.
If I choose to bet my life’s savings on GME and purchase the shares then yeah that’s my own fault (as long as insider trading / pump and dump on the other side has not occurred). No matter what people “pushed” me to believe (as long as this doesn’t cause violence or harm to others), the responsibility on following through with those beliefs is mine.
Just like I said if someone is leading a paid Bigfoot wilderness excursion into the woods then yes I think there could be an argument for their liability if people die on their tour. Just as there’s liability if people die skydiving or bungee jumping.
If someone tells me Bigfoot is out in the woods on Christmas Eve and as an adult I choose to believe them that is my choice, not theirs.
I’m just saying we have to be careful calling ideologies dangerous or saying that people are being “pushed” toward things - lots of people argue that LGBT and trans ideology is dangerous. I think they’re ridiculous bigots for saying that but we have freedom of expression in most western countries. If I want to be able to freely express my opinion, other people have to be able to freely express theirs.
Where in that quote did I say they should be stopped? I don't see it, because I didn't say it. I didn't even read the rest of your post if you're going to just lie like that. I said no such thing.
Hey man it’s possible I could be misunderstanding your viewpoint but what I am hearing is: People are pushing beliefs that you think harm people.
My basic counterpoint to that is: No one forces anyone to believe anything. People are allowed to believe what they want.
If you believe harm is caused do you think anything should be done about it?
Correct.
Therefore, all scams should be legal. This is based on your logic.
That is very context-dependent.
Yet again, please quote me saying it should be stopped in this specific case. Either that or I'll just flag you for trolling and move on.
“Do not promote mythology or ideology as reality” implies that you’re saying it should be stopped.
I’m just saying this is a simple misunderstanding and I’m really trying to come to some understanding with honest debate - I’m not approaching this to troll, just to understand. Willing to let it go!
That is not true. Stop lying about what I am saying. Repeatedly insisting I am saying it should be stopped doesn't make it true.
Do you really think any time anyone says "don't," they mean "this person needs to be stopped?" If I say to someone, "don't watch that movie, it's awful," am I saying they should be stopped from watching it? You really think that's what is being implied?
My interpretation isn’t unreasonable. Saying ‘Do not promote mythology or ideology as reality’ sounds prescriptive, as though you’re making a strong recommendation about what people should or shouldn’t do, especially in the context of your initial comment (discouraging spending money on a Bigfoot convention). Thank you for clarifying that is not what you meant.
I think we’re still at an impasse in how we define scam, but that is ok.
I literally said in that initial comment:
You were just picking a fight with something you imagined I implied where I very clearly showed that I was not even trying to stop my wife paying money to those people.
Yeah perhaps it is a good example of how people get their back up when their beliefs are criticized. I like Bigfoot and the paranormal and I don’t much appreciate it being called a scam. But I still don’t think you’re interpreting your comments and part in all of this as charitably as I have been on my side.
You won't get far with this guy, he loves getting into arguments with people for no reason at all.
“No troll, no troll, you’re the troll!!!” <- the audacity of this energy lol
I don't follow your point sorry
The correct response here would have been, "I'm sorry for lying and putting words in your mouth."
Based on your assumptions about what I said, I should assume this means you want to stop me, correct?