this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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[alt text: a screenshot of a tweet by @delaney_nolan, which says, "Biden/Harris saw this polling and decided to keep unconditionally arming Israel". Below the tweet is a screenshot from an article, which states: "In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they'd be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they'd be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely."]

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[–] Ethereal87@beehaw.org 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

OK, how do we know we're "beating fascism" and can back off? What stops Democratic leadership from arguing that the most boring ass middle of the road fiscal conservative Republican on the planet is "Trump 2.0" and must be stopped?

I don't disagree on what you said at all, but so much of this is a war of messaging and marketing. If an amorphous "leadership" just keeps arguing the Republicans are all fascists regardless of what their actions/deeds/etc...actually suggest, how then do we push back on that narrative without being called a Russian plant or Republican sympathizer? In an age of clickbait, outrage manufacturing and people isolating in their own news spheres, it's super easy for those with power to just lie and stay in power.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It was obvious in 2012 and 2016 that we needed somebody further left than Obama and Clinton. It was obvious in 2020 that Bernie was the best choice of Democratic candidate. We weren't rewarding neoliberalism then. But when Biden won the primary, we put our feelings aside and rewarded neoliberalism, and we bought our trans comrades 4 more years of life. Then, in 2024, we stopped rewarding neoliberalism.

If Kamala had won yesterday, then you and drag would currently be talking about AOC 2028. We would be able to stop rewarding neoliberalism. Drag would be posting clips of Harris saying that she's overseen the greatest growth in oil production in history, and calling her a genocidal maniac. It would be clear.

But Trump won, and it's equally clear what we have to do in this timeline.

[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It was obvious in 2012 and 2016 that we needed somebody further left than Obama and Clinton.

When Republicans win, the Overton window doesn't slide to the left. It's slides to the right. Expecting it to go even further left is a misunderstanding of politics.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Good thing Republicans didn't control the white house in those years, then.

[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Trump wasn't elected in 2016?

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 month ago

He was elected at the end of 2016. Drag is talking about the rest of that year, when America had just had 8 years of Obama. Bernie could have beat Trump in 2016, if we had pushed hard enough. The will to choose a progressive candidate finally came... In 2024 when it was useless. Some people just don't adapt fast enough, even when the stakes are clear.