this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
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[–] Klanky@sopuli.xyz 36 points 1 week ago (35 children)

So as someone who has never played LoL or any MoBA (or is it a DOTA?), can someone give me a run-down? Just generally toxic behavior?

[–] Baguette@lemm.ee 37 points 1 week ago (15 children)

Mobas (and team games in general) have an inherent issue where people dont like to be losing, and when they are, they usually find an outlet by blaming the rest of the team.

Its a pretty huge problem in league because

  1. Behavior problem. Riot has like never addressed the toxicity issue. They've basically said heres some banned words and thats it. People can get by either griefing in game (which has been essentially unpunished) or by typing in non bannable ways (i remember seeing someone using europe as a uhh... You know)
  2. Game design problem. League is pretty punishing when it comes to losing. You're stuck in a game you dont want to play, esp if your team holds you hostage by not surrendering intentionally. There's no fast way to get into a new game. You have to finish this, lose lp (ranked point system in league), and then possibly run into the same situation again. This isn't really riot's fault. This is just a flaw of mobas that no ones learned to really fix yet
[–] DeRp_DaWg@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

This is just a flaw of mobas that no ones learned to really fix yet

A flaw of humanity really. But unlike Riot, Valve has and still are taking action against toxicity in DotA 2, for example with their behaviour score system.

  • Reports for toxic chat, toxic voice, and/or greifing will lower behaviour score.

  • Matchmaking considers this score, putting toxic people in matches together.

  • If a player's behaviour score is too low they will automatically be muted.

  • Typing slurs in chat lowers behaviour score, and too many will mute the player for the rest of the match.

  • On the match found pop-up, it tells you if the behaviour score is differing between the players. You can then either press confirm or queue again to find a better match.

  • At the end of a match you can dislike players, which will lessen then chance of meeting that player again. You can also press avoid on a player, making it impossible to be matched on team with that player again.

There's more to it, but that's the gist of it. Still a toxic game but at least 10 times less than LoL.

[–] FreeFacts@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That's not enough, still. It should directly affect the rank too. Get low on behavior score, not only everything they already do, you will also start going down. Because rank is everything to those toxic people, it is the only thing that drives their toxicity.

The problem with mobas, and most modern multiplayer games, is the visible rank system. Back in the day, with only community hosted servers, people were playing for fun. Then multiplayer shifted to publisher hosted servers where you started playing with one click on the menu. To keep the matches interesting, you needed a system to matchmake fair lobbies, so here comes the ranking. But they made a mistake by making the rank public, because now the players are no longer playing for fun, they are playing to raise their rank - and losing even lowers their rank.

[–] DeRp_DaWg@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

That's not enough, still. It should directly affect the rank too.

I disagree. I think they made the right call to make behaviour score and rank seperate.

Because rank is everything to those toxic people, it is the only thing that drives their toxicity.

Not true, I play a lot of unranked and there are many toxic players there as well.

But they made a mistake by making the rank public, because now the players are no longer playing for fun, they are playing to raise their rank

Same as before, people play to win regardless of there being a visible rank or not. The game is competetive either way, and competetive games attracts toxic people.

[–] Baguette@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago

Oh, ranking system in video games is a whole other beast to tackle. It's a both pro and con game design. Games want to promote people perfecting the game and bringing competitiveness in the sphere. That's not inherently a bad thing. Even in non ranked games, if theres a way to compete people will naturally aim to be the best. There's just a lot of issues that come with it as well.

Visual rank is hard. For one, it's a medal to reward the player. Just like physical sports, winning a medal feels good. It's an accomplishment that really boosts the feeling of competitiveness in a sport. On the other hand, visual rank in games can be used as a way to put people down. "Oh you're only _ rank" and all that. Not really easily solvable, considering how many games that have a ranked system. It's one of the fundamentals of the system that couples everything together.

[–] Baguette@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago

Yea valve has been pushing for punishing bad behavior, which is good on them (I remember the coal incident). It's still a complicated task, but at least they're trying things that seem to stick rather than riot (like them trying to change certain pings to be party only which was really stupid)

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