this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2024
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Showerthoughts
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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. A showerthought should offer a unique perspective on an ordinary part of life.
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Well I can't think of a voluntary action that people do for any other reason than either wanting to do it or having to do it. That's the point of the post. Every example I have been given so far is either of those two. It feels like we're free do to what ever, but in reality we're only free to do what we want and nobody picked their wants.
Nobody is forcing me to reply to this message. I do it because I want to. If I didn't want to I wouldn't but I also don't know why I enjoy having these debates. I didn't choose to enjoy it, I just do.
Just give me an example of something you do or could do that you don't have to but also don't want to. I don't think you can. You're not free to do that.
The problem is with you definition of want. You've formulated it based on the conclusion you've wanted to reach - that there is no other reason to do things, not based on what you actually think it is. That's why I asked for your definition - to try to find a counter example, without you moving the goalpost and saying that that's actually a want as well.
Pick any dictionary definition for it.
Well, I neither have to nor have any strong desire to wake up early on a Saturday, but I still do because of a force of habit, how does that fit into your definition?
It's involuntary action. Not something you choose to do.
The title is essentially an argument against free will. The illusion that you could have done otherwise. Waking up early out of habit is no indication of free will to me.
I wasn't arguing for free will, I was arguing against your argument, and, as you can see, it is flawed.
When it comes to free will - in a situation where you have to make a choice it doesn't matter that post-factum you can say that you couldn't have chosen otherwise due to internal and external factors, what matters is that in the moment you still have to make that choice, and no one (oftentimes not even you) can really predict the outcome.
Also, determinism is flawed simply because quantum mechanics exists, which is decidedly indeterministic and deals with probabilities, and there are phenomenons where it affects things on a macro scale.