Don’t we try to categorize everything though? Like, could you wear a combination of items without someone trying to categorize it into a style? If it were true that you cannot, absurdist style would be impossible to depict visually.

[–] Hammocks4All@lemmy.ml 20 points 4 months ago (2 children)

That’s an interesting point.

Upon further reflection, I discovered I don't fully understand the nuances. So I tried to think it through.

I think it goes as follows:

Nihilism says there is no meaning so any pursuit whatsoever is futile. (Not goal based.)
Existentialism says there is no universal meaning but it is the individual who creates meaning. So we project our meaning into the world and live in it and therefore live in a meaningful world. We should search for our personal meaning. (Goal based.)
Absurdism says there is no universal meaning and if there is, we'll never understand it. This doesn't mean we shouldn't enjoy transient pseudo-meanings, though. In fact, we SHOULD enjoy them. But we should be aware that they're not eternal and not objective. (Not goal based.)

So, on second thought, I think the meme does a great a job at capturing absurdism. Still, the difference between existentialism and absurdism is subtle.

What do you all think? Is that kinda the idea?

I wonder if Existentialists or Absurdists consider our biological reality and needs when developing the ideas. For instance, we need food, shelter, social acceptance, and so forth. What does this say about "meaning" and pursuits like fashion and style (as it relates to social acceptance?). How does Maslow's hierarchy of needs fit in with these philosophies?

[–] Classy@sh.itjust.works 10 points 4 months ago (3 children)

The way I look at it, the big difference is between existentialism and absurdism lie in the problem of universalism. An existentialist is in many cases also going to be a Christian, possibly a Christian who is having a lot of doubt in their faith or struggling with the problem of evil, things like that. Existential philosophy tries to square the fact that we exist as moral beings but we seem to live in a world that lacks a universal concept of morality, so where does our morality even come from if it is not universal? To the existentialist, morality IS the underlying basic law of nature, and thus morality is itself a higher meaning, but morality is not applied universally, and this is a great conflict.

Absurdists, I feel, ultimately accept the fact that morality is NOT necessarily the basic underlying law of nature. Morality is subjective and it is personal, and it is messy and often falls short. I imagine that the absurdists have already gone through the existentialist crisis and come out on the other side with an acceptance of the seeming meaninglessness of it all, of the fact that our moral scruples are ultimately just a way to cope with existence and not some Higher Truth that we must strive towards.

So, in short:

Nihilism: Life is meaningless, and all pursuit of meaning is futile. — universalist, negative.
Existentialism: Life lacks inherent meaning, but we must create our own meaning in a world that often seems indifferent. — subjective (not necessarily universalist), can range from negative to positive.
Absurdism: Life is inherently meaningless, but we can choose to create and embrace our own meaning, even in the face of the absurd. — subjective, generally positive.

[–] InputZero@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I imagine that the absurdists have already gone through the existentialist crisis and come out on the other side with an acceptance of the seeming meaninglessness of it all...

That was definitely my experience of it. It helped me grow out of my existential angst learning about absurdists and how they just embrace the madness of it all.

[–] eramseth@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Eh... it's not that we're trying to create meaning in the face of the absurd. The absurd is is the condition arising from the contrast between a human need for order and meaning on one side, and a lack of order and meaning (or lack of ability to grasp the order and meaning) on the other... and it's this absurdity that defines the human condition. And we should embrace it.

Honestly someone who spends their whole life searching for a universal morality could very well be embracing absurdism as well.

I also feel that the positivity surrounding absurdity comes from the fact that the absurd is the struggle (roughly between a desire and search for order and meaning) and the struggle is the human condition. And once you think about the struggle-not as something to overcome or win-but as the basic defining characteristic of humanity... you start to view the whole thing positively.

[–] Classy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Well my comment has more upvotes on it than yours, therefore I can objectively posit that my explanation has greater meaning than yours, therefore I am right and you are wrong. This explanation has zero flaws in it whatsoever.

In all seriousness, I appreciate the comment and I generally feel that you encapsulated the idea more eloquently than I did.

[–] eramseth@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Yeah but without your comment I wouldn't have posted mine!

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Life lacks inherent meaning, but we must create our own meaning

It's not even really "must" - it's just what humans do instinctively. Recognizing that's what we're doing and being okay with it is the best way to go from there.

[–] eramseth@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Kinda, but also the core of the absurdity is the contrast between the human need for meaning and order - and the inherent inability to find and create it ultimately. And as an added flavor, this absurdity is the main definition of the human condition. It's not exactly enjoying pseudo-meanings. It's enjoying the absurdity.

Recommend: the myth of sisyphus by camus. I believe you can find a full pdf of it online on some university website or another.

[–] Soleos@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

"Don’t we try to categorize everything though"

That sounds like a you problem :P

Enter constructivist relativism