this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2024
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I feel slightly better knowing that the Chinese suffer from Chinesium-based products as much as we do.
I suspect it's actually worse there. This guy has a series called "China fakes everything" which is worth watching
I watched a couple videos from this channel and done a bit of research and:
I would recommend not to listen to a random guy who claims to be an "insider"
I don't think what he's saying about Falun Gong is so far fetched to be outside the realm of plausibility.
There's been enough reports of similar treatment of other groups, like the Uyghurs and Tibetans, from reputable sources that I believe something is going on there.
As for sources, if the CCP is half as bad as he makes them out to be, it would be irresponsible of him to give sources.
I don't know enough to refute anything you've said, but frankly you're less credible than him right now. I mean no offense but you have a single comment on your account and you've offered nothing to support your claim of twisted truth.
Too much smoke to conclude there's no fire
I'm not saying that the persecution against Falung Gong is fake, actually I believe is true, violence against minorities is another Wednesday for the CCP, but he specifically say that, and I quote: "Falun Gong is a meditation practice that started in 1992 in China. At the core of the Falun Gong are values of truthfulness, compassion and tolerance." But the omits the fact that that group is anti gay, anti feminism, anti evolution, is anti medicine and is leader is worshipped as a deity. I wouldn't consider someone who spread such lies as a good source, because at that point he could be lying about anything, that's Alex Jones level of manipulation of the Truth. And you're right, the CCP is a terrible dictatorship, b8t all the info that I have said are freely accessible by an internet search, or even on Wikipedia, they're not some hidden secret that need protection from the CCP such that he have the right to just say things without having to prove them.
And yes, I only have this comments, I prefer to just lurk usually, but this doesn't invalidate my points.
Lurk less. You're making a good contribution here.
The Falun Gong was originally an ally of the CCP as recently as 1993. They had a falling out when some of their chief leadership got caught in a string of financial scandals and abuse allegations. Attempts by the state to begin prosecuting church leaders triggered an outcry from the membership, which prompted more arrests and more efforts hide the organizations money, and finally a wholesale exodus from the country by its most devoted members.
Falun Gong leadership arrived in the US and immediately began churning out anti-China spin, with the help of the Epoch Times - an originally Chinese-only paper primarily distributed in Chinese ex-pat communities by church refugees. If you get into the history of the Epoch Times, you should very quickly discover that it is not a reliable source of information.
Which isn't to say China's been great wrt religious freedom or free association. But the modern incarnation of Falun Gong has more in common with Scientology than, say, Mormonism or Baháʼí. You're going to fall down some really QAnon-themed rabbit holes if you take everything their community is saying at face value.
That is some fine tuned measuring, my friend. Scientology Vs Mormonism. I appreciate you and your eye for detail.
And here's the person who know their shit.
From the 15 minutes on the toilet-grade research that I've done I got the feeling it was a Scientology kind of cult, but I had no idea that they were once affiliated with the CCP.
But now I have looked a bit deeper into them and holy shit they are so much worse then I though. They are so much similar to Scientology in level of infiltration and disinformation about their practices it's a bit scary.
To be fair, none of that was in your original post. Not knowing all of that, I think it was a safe assumption you meant the allegations of mistreatment by the CCP, rather than the Falun Gong claims of benevolence.
Obviously you didn't though, and a quick Google search suggests you might have some valid points. I didn't know any of that!
However, I do want to point out that you could say most of the same things about fundamental Christians, and while I'd personally take the same view of those types ( I do believe they're a dangerous cult) I wouldn't say anyone calling them peaceful religious types was engaging in "Alex Jones level of manipulation of the truth" and wouldn't discount them entirely for holding that view. Particularly when, as you say, it's very likely they are actually being persecuted
But hey, if nothing else I think you've shown that I have no idea what I'm talking about here. Maybe that comparison doesn't actually hold. Also, for all I know he's a bought and paid for propagandist. Honestly, nothing surprises me these days
You're right, I didn't made a good argument in my first comment. I can see how I could have come out as one of "those" CCP defender.
And I also agree about fundamental Christians being basically a coult; when I said "Alex Jones level of manipulation of the truth" I was talking about how Alwx usually takes disreputable sources or missrapresent good ones when making his arguments (like when he said that Putin was a good guy and cited only Russian propaganda outlets, or during the Trump campaign screamed about that the head of the American secret services said that they were going to kill Trump when the guy actually ment that the GOP was (metaphorically) going to kill Trump for the thing he was sayings and that reminded me a bit like how David Than is saying about the Falun Gong, but without the propaganda sources, I could have explained myself better tho).
And don't worry, I have no idea what I'm talking about too, I just Google shit. He gives me bad vibes tho (Vibes, very scientific method of judgment as we all know), he reminds me of some right wing propagandist.
Hey I just found out that that guy is very much probably a paid propagandists, I don't have any direct sources to prove it but I can point to this video on why I think it is the case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JaPzJKycxc
This is just the part 2, if you want the part 1 here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mQ8plzWl9g
Well......you COULD try listening to the outsiders......but only Kevin Nash. Scott Hall already passed away.
Fakeception.
The sources are chinese social media most of the time and by the time he posts it on youtube, the chinese government has deleted the videos in china already. It‘s not like you can access it so easily anyway. It‘s really not his fault that western media does not give a damn about what‘s happening in china. There rarely are any reliable sources because of that circumstance.
I don't think you are being very fair about the coverage of wester media about China, we constantly hear about how the Chinese government is oppressive and evil and oppress minorities and all the fucked up things they do.
Also, you are saying that the government manage to censor everything so effectively? any post in all social media? If so, why then we know about all the other shit they are up to, if the censorship is that good? He shows some video with audio in his reports, why don't post his unedited footage of them as proof? Then other can listen to it and confirm that the subtitles he puts on them while talking over the them are genuine and not complete fabrications, his "reports" are not censored, so I can't se why he can't post them.
Also in this very thread we have seen how he portrays the Falun Gong, basically Asian Scientology, a cult which venerate it's leader as a deity, is anti gay, anti feminism, believes that every race was created by a different god and so there should be racial segregation and that claims that modern medicine is evil, as a (and I quote this video at 00:16) "Falun Gong is a meditation practice that started in 1992 in China. At the core of the Falun Gong are values of truthfulness, compassion and tolerance." without saying anything else about them.
Is this someone trustworthy? At the very least he manipulate the truth, and at worst is a propagandist for a very evil Cult
You're just as sus as anybody else, throw up some citations about your claims.
For my claims in the thread about what terrible cult is the Falon Gong
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong
The first paragraph after the alternative names and transcriptions chart says:
"Led by Li Hongzhi, who is viewed by adherents as a deity-like figure, Falun Gong practitioners operate a variety of organizations in the United States and elsewhere, including the dance troupe Shen Yun.[14][15] They are known for their opposition to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), espousing anti-evolutionary views, opposition to homosexuality and feminism, and rejection of modern medicine, among other views described as "ultra-conservative".[23][24]"
For the quote I cite from David Zhang's video you can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npqb59Z_ol8 At 00:16 seconds
I can't source the claims I have made about Alex Jones because I heard them from the podcast "knowledge fight" around the 70/71 episode and I have no idea how to look for the actual video of Alex saying that
Ok, thank you for the wikipedia links. What's your beef with them, anyways? There are lots of people in the world who share in one or more of Falun Gong's beliefs. What makes "this terrible cult" special? Why, in your opinion, have many members been imprisoned, physically beaten and politically silenced by the Chinese Communist Party?
I have no beef with them, i didn't even knew they existed before today, but any group that is against all of the aforementioned groups (which I personally am a part of a lot of them) is just a terrible group, not differently then many religious or political extremist groups. Also, as it states in the next paragraph of the Wikipedia article they are connected with far right politician and Qanon, which doesn't gat any positive opinions from me.
The reason for why they are persecuted (in my 5 minutes Wikipedia search opinion) is not because they are special in any way, if not that they are kinda popular, it's that (like many other political groups, and not only the more extreme ones) the CCP doesn't like them, also the fact that they are against the CCP itself, as it is stated in the Wikipedia article probably is a huge factor.
Correction.
As somebody else said in the thread, the group was once affiliated with the CCP but they grew in popularity too much and started to pose an actual threat to the state and because of that the persecution started.
Also they have infiltrated a lot of organization, I've looked at other Wikipedia article and I found bizarre that there was no mention of their extremist practices and so I went back to the main article and I found that they managed to censor other Wikipedia pages:
"According to scholar James R. Lewis writing in 2018, Falun Gong adherents have attempted to control English Wikipedia articles covering the group and articles related to it. Lewis highlights Falun Gong's extensive internet presence, and how editors who have to date contributed to English Wikipedia entries associated with Falun Gong to the point where "Falun Gong followers and/or sympathizers de facto control the relevant pages on Wikipedia", and how this is particularly important for Falun Gong as an organization due to the search engine optimization results of these entries, and how the entries can influence other media entities. Lewis notes also how this fits in as part of Falun Gong's general media strategy, such as Falun Gong media like The Epoch Times, New Tang Dynasty, Sound of Hope Radio, and, as Lewis discusses, the Rachlin media group. Lewis reports that the Rachlin media group is the Falun Gong's de facto PR firm operated by Gail Rachlin, spokesperson for the Falun Dafa Information Centre. Lewis says that Amnesty International does not independently verify its reports from Falun Gong groups, accepting material directly from Falun Gong organizations as fact. According to Lewis, "[Falun Gong] has thus been able to influence other media via its presence on the web, through its direct press releases, and through its own media."
And even on my native language Wikipedia article about then nothing is stated about the practices.
They feel a lot like Scientology, but it's scarier because nobody know about them, and that let's them get away with a lot more shit.
This video is a good example of what they are about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mQ8plzWl9g
"China fakes everything"
and
"Adam ruins everything"
To which both I ask.......orgasms?
I feel better knowing that Chinese military partners get to feel the joy as well. (Curbs can be a bitch sometimes....)
They suffer far more than anyone else from it. I mean just last week another rocket malfunctioned, lost a fuel tank that crashed close to a nearby village, enveloping homes in toxic gas. And spacecraft catastrophes are only the tiny tip if the tip of the iceberg.
I don't think that was a malfunction...
That was 'working as intended'.