200
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2024
200 points (92.7% liked)
News
21676 readers
4361 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I doubt I will ever buy from the Big 3 again. Bailout parasites. Tried of these piece of shit too big too fail corps pulling this crap.
My next car will be a Chinese EV, if I have to drive it over the Mexican border myself.
This opinion is ridiculous as "the big 3" doesn't even exist anymore and hasn't for over a decade. Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep is owned by a Scandanavian company.
Also this isn't written to protect the few remaining American companies, it's to protect the entire auto industry in the US including Kia/Hyundai, VW, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Subaru, etc.
China selling vehicles with massive subsidies that allow them to undercut everyone else in the market isn't good for anybody but China because as soon as they put their competitors out of business, they will jack the price of their cars up as high as they want.
This is the same reason why when Walmart comes to a new town, all the similar local businesses shut down because it's impossible to compete with their deep pockets, but now you're advocating for it on a national scale which will potentially cost hundreds of thousands of domestic manufacturing jobs.
It's good for all the Americans who want an EV but can't afford any of the few models that are out there that you can legally purchase in the U.S.
There are dozens of models out there already and the used market is growing day by day. Why does everyone need a brand new car and how does building a brand new car for everyone while scrapping every existing car reduce emissions?
At what point in history have brand new cars ever been obtainable for the masses?
We're talking about new Chinese EVs vs. new American EVs. So obviously we are talking about new cars here. As the article says, you can get a brand new Seagull in China for around $12,000 and around $21,000 in Latin America. I can't think of a new American EV that comes even close to that price point.
You were talking about Americans who can't afford to buy the new EVs currently on the market here in the US. Again, I'll ask when were new cars ever obtainable for most people and why can't a used car fill that need like it always has in the past? Seems preferable to decimating the entire industry and all those union jobs just so that China can dump a bunch of their inventory here at artificially low prices.
A Leaf is $29k before the $7500 in federal credits, which puts it pretty close to that $21k price point you mentioned and the Bolt EV was going for $26k before the $7500 credit. Seems like there are options available in this range but the people buying these cars are going for more expensive options based on sales numbers.
Oh, look what I predicted when this thread was initially posted. I just didn't know people would be doing it on their behalf in this very thread:
https://lemmy.world/comment/10862165
If you don't want to lose jobs because of this, nationalize the auto industry. It sucks that workers could lose their jobs because of this, but your reasoning is some "too big to fail" nonsense, especially when it includes federal credits to buy a car. That's not going to keep auto jobs in America. Getting with the modern era rather than trying to sell everyone giant, polluting cars and trucks they don't need will do that. If you want this to remain a capitalist enterprise, it's no one's fault but their own if they get out-competed by China.
I really can't comprehend why people think this is protectionism for US automakers as there are very few of them, GM, Ford, and Tesla. There are over a dozen more that aren't US companies that still manufacture here that such a tariff would also protect, which is why people are talking about protecting the market not a couple of US companies.
How does nationalizing the auto industry fix anything and what companies are you even talking about here?
You talk about the modern era and what people want but this is in stark contrast to what these same people actually buy. You act like people are forced to buy the vehicles that sell the best when in reality it's a voluntary decision and they sell the best because that's what people want.
What you're arguing for here is exactly the same thing that companies like Walmart do to small towns when they move in. Suddenly every local competitor is out of business, their employees wind up working for Walmart and spending their Walmart pay on items from Walmart. The town suffers while the owners prosper. This is like the textbook definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face all so you can selfishly and ignorantly buy a new car at a discount price.
This isn't "out-competing the US market," it's the Chinese government decimating the US market and then controlling it. Your solution seems to be raising taxes or cutting services in order to funnel taxpayer money toward automotive companies. Sounds like something Trump would come up with. Why don't you stop beating around the bush and just say you think we should bust up the unions and slash worker pay so that we can have cheaper cars and win this race to the bottom?
If there are good American EVs which are just as affordable, how will the Chinese government decimate the U.S. market?
You want it both ways.
Again, I don't know why you're so fixated on the few American companies on the market when this is about the entire industry in the US, of which American cars make up maybe 25%. This protects that 25% plus the other 75% of non-American companies.
You'll have to point out where I made the argument that there are equivalent new American EVs selling for the same price as these highly subsidized Chinese EVs. I don't recall ever saying that since this is the whole crux of the argument. If everyone were able to sell their cars as cheap as these highly subsidized vehicles, the US and EU wouldn't even need to impose tariffs nor would China need to subsidize their offerings. This is a complete strawman.
If you care about the environment and want a cheap EV go buy a used Nissan Leaf for $7k. It has already been built and won't generate new emissions in order for you to purchase it.
So then I guess China isn't going to decimate the U.S. market with those sort of deals. Which you said they were going to do.
At this point I believe its the international market that is subsidising Chinese EVs. Take a look at the byd dolphin mini / seagull. It is priced starting at $21,000 in mexico while the price in China is from $9700. You find many other examples of the same car models sold at much higher price overseas than locally in China.
for some of the vehicles its due to car saftey regulations, so modifications are needed to legally be sold in some regions. the regulations on vehicles in china are less strict than some other countries.