this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2024
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[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

No. You’re just saying we need to label religious professionals.

Because that’s a thing literal Nazis never did

[–] secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)

The yellow badge was part of a racist ideology based on eugenics pseudoscience.

This is not race or ethnicity based or part of a political movement. However, if you are a conservative Christian who believes that a virgin gave birth, that Sunday bread has supernatural properties, and listen to the Pope and religious sermons on a regular basis, then YES, IT DOES AFFECT YOUR FETAL PAIN STUDY when you clearly are trying to outlaw abortion because your religion wants that.

My wanting to know the religious bias of someone believing in illogical fairy tale bullshit is not the equivalent of Nazism, who would have put someone like me to death many times over. I don't want bullshit to taint science. It's an understandable request. The atheists of the world have been dealing with religious bullshit for so long, it's fair to want real data.

If we had the religious bias of scientists clearly known, it would be illuminating in many ways, including scientific equivalency which has become the new moral equivalency.

Right now you have "one the one hand, these 90 scientists believe we are all going to die from global warming but these 10 scientists think this is a normal trend"

I would MUCH rather have "on the one hand, these 90 scientists who believe the world is governed by math think we are all going to die from global warming, and these 10 catholic scientists who think a virgin got pregnant and gave birth without sexual fertilization and that jesus will always protect the planet think this is a normal trend"

this is not a ridiculous or fascist position and religious bullshit has infected climate science, and studying psychology, and led to justifications for racism and homophobia and OFTEN results in scientific conclusions that conveniently seem to at first line up with religion... until more and more data eventually proves it to be bullshit. This is not about discrimination. I want bullshit out of the data set.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I understand your position and I get what you are going for, but...

I submit to you Ayn Rand.

Atheists can be giant pieces of shit, too.

She used her atheism to argue for the benefit of selfishness and promoted dumbass "great men" theories of humanity. She was not Christian but ascribed to similar belief in the need for bullshit heirarchies with lazy fucking losers stealing the value created by labor sitting at the top.

Like her daddy before communism. Waaah so sad for daddy's violently fascist supporting little girl.

So I don't think it would solve as much as you think.

Humans are not rational creatures. We are rationalizing creatures and we can rationalize and justify almost anything to ourselves for any reason, religion isn't needed for it. Rand and many others are fine examples of it. She rationalized it because she was a rich kid who had her riches taken back by workers and she didn't like that.

Humans are bullshitters, removing religion won't change that.

Like does anyone think Donald Trump is seriously, actually religious? Anyone? A guy like him would exist with or without religion.

[–] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 months ago

Many many people think Trump is a practicing Christian. Like 90% of white evangelicals.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

And, do you think, that a scientist who happens to be LGBTQ, doing a study on monkey sexuality, is able to be not biased by their worldview?

That because they seem to agree with you they’re immune from bias and are therefore totally trustworthy?

How pedantic do you want to get?

Either the science is good or it’s not. Either the study was conducted to minimize bias, the data is clean, and the conclusions come from verified evidence, or it’s not. We don’t need to know what particular flavor of human someone is- everyone is biased. Most studies are funded by private interest, and opening people up to rampant discrimination isn’t going to change that.

[–] Maeve@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 months ago

Some people can be religious and understand metaphor: some people can be atheist and understand metaphor. Some prime can be religious and interpret religion literally: as can some atheists (eg ” those people believe all the species on earth fit on a boat" when obviously, many religious don't). I'm reading statements that make good points, either way. Maybe peer review being more stringent would address a lot?

[–] Barrymore@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Not advocating for the other person, but there's a big difference in what you're comparing it to. People choose their religion, and they choose their profession. If those 2 things are in direct conflict, like a religious scientist, the audience of their work should be made aware of that conflict.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Most people are born into their religion, as a matter of culture. Frequently, religion is integral to their culture, and even if they do choose to leave that religion, it likely will leave an indelible mark- good or bad-

Their purpose is to other-ize religious scientists, exactly like what the yellow star was used to do to Jews by Nazis, (and at other times and places.) I think we all know what Nazis did to those they otherized.

The rhetoric is absolutely the same kind of justification for forcing it is also the same. When non-Jewish Germans started sympathies with Jews, do you think they admitted it was to encourage discrimination and bigotry, or do you think they said things like “we know it’s difficult, but they do shoddy work and you should know that you need to keep an eye on them.”

Couching it in the rhetoric of atheist enlightenment doesn’t make it okay. It’s still bigotry, and while the OC might not realize that, meaning to or not, it’s still advancing bigotry.

[–] secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

when treated with ideals of respect and tolerance, religious people still adhere to the tenants of their religions leading to bigotry and stupidity

being tolerant of the religious is like being tolerant of a pack of rabid hyenas. I suppose it's the kind thing to do to the rabid hyenas, but it may not be the best option for those who are not rabid hyenas

the religious burned scientists at the stake. i think having skepticism towards the rational ability of religious scientists is not bigotry when religious irrationality has been shown to have broad and constant historical validity

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

Yeah. So. To clarify, you’re okay with discriminating against people, so long as they’re the right people?