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this post was submitted on 03 May 2024
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Did he know the laws before, simply getting amnesia the day he broke them thus "becoming" an irresponsible gun owner, or did he never know the laws, and was always an irresponsible gun owner?
Whether you can tell or not has no basis on whether he is or not. Can you tell what is inside of an unlabeled soup can before you open it? No, but that doesn't make it not chicken noodle, you just have to open it before you know that it's chicken noodle. Just because he hadn't opened his can and shown his irresponsible contents doesn't mean they weren't in there to begin with, the closed can doesn't contain tomato soup until you open it and it magically becomes chicken noodle now that it is open.
I know youre used to the US where tons of gun homicides happen everyday, but its not normal for the rest of the developed world. If you want guns to be a safe thing, you have to be able to tell before these people go murdering. Hindsight is 20/20. There are people today that are going to kill someone for the first time, people that to the outside world look like responsible gun owners.
Unfortunately, like unlabeled cans, people are able to hide their contents. Unlike the cans, people can even actively attempt to resist "opening" them to find out their contents, making it all that more of an impossible task.
right, do you see the problem here? To the outside world, a responsible gun owner, and an irresponsible one that hasnt killed yet look the same. how do you keep guns away from irresponsible gun owners before they kill someone? You have to treat every gun owner as irresponsible, because we cant tell before it happens. And it needs to stop happening.
Ah yes, guilty until proven innocent, the backbone of the American justice system, and a good way to treat one's fellow human.
I dont think you know what our justice system does with people guilty of shooting people if you think that's what Im suggesting.
Yes, shooting people, the only thing one could possibly be considered "guilty" of, how could I forget.
I mean, that's what we're talking about
Well technically we're talking about people who haven't hurt anyone who through some minority report precognition we have decided will shoot someone beyond a shadow of a doubt, enough so that we can deprive them of their rights like a criminal even though they aren't one yet.
Hell tbh, why stop there? If we've determined that a person has a high enough percentage chance to kill someone one day, why simply remove legal access to one tool with which he could do so instead of removing the would-be killer himself, either through preemptive execution or life imprisonment? Hell, they were statistically similar to murderers of the past so we may as well, right? I mean as long as we're doing pre-crime it makes sense to me!
This isnt punishment for any kind of crime. Like, no one is allowed to drive drunk. Some people can manage it, they drive drunk anyway and never hit anyone. Are we depriving them of their rights? Am i treating them like criminals by not letting them drive drunk? I dont know what warped dystopian images youve got in your head of a world where people arent allowed to have guns, because we have a reality to look at. Places like Germany and Japan already do this. Are those awful places to live to you?
Right, nobody is allowed to drive drunk, yet we don't have checks at the local liquor store based on who is "more likely" to drive drunk, we punish those who get caught doing it with jail and Blow 'N' Gos, as those are the ones who have proven themselves to be irresponsible.
If we said "sorry but someone decided that you look like the type to drink and drive so you're not ever allowed to buy or consume alcohol," that would be a violation of their rights, and that is what you want to do with your pre-crime nonsense.
Yes. Germany and Japan would be awful places to live to me, and that is without even considering they don't trust their citizens to protect themselves. Germany would be the better of the two but, still nein, Japan is xenophobic and since I'm an "outsider" it sounds like a lame place to live. Combine that with the whole "Japanese police inspect every home in their district 1x/yr just cause, looking for that evil, evil, marijuana and can hold suspects indefinitely forcing confessions leading to a 98% conviction rate which is widely regarded as likely a large amount of unjust convictions" thing and yeaaahhh if you live there I can see why you're unfamiliar with being treated like a human.
You're throwing in a lot of your own shit. Havent said anything about this being criminal, about screening or having checks or how anyone looks. I havent said any of that. No one is allowed to own a gun same as no one is allowed to drive drunk.
Why would germany be an awful place to live? With its higher standard of living, higher life expectancy, much lower crime rates, better wages and access to healthcare. Thats the thing, i dont think you know what its like outside the US. Youre obsessed with having a gun to protect yourself because gun violence is common here. Germans dont need to protect themselves from gun violence because no one has guns. They just dont have that worry altogether.
Ah so to you, "owning a gun" should be a criminal offense, akin to driving drunk, which is a criminal offense, yet "you haven't said anything about this being criminal," just that it should be a crime, got it...
Lol I don't think you know what it's like inside the US, frankly. It isn't like it's Gaza over here, our violence is also largely localized in 5 counties which are easy to avoid as our entire country is comparable in size to the whole EU, not just Des Vaterland which is smaller than Montana alone. Not trying to rip on Germany too hard, Schwarzwalder kuchen ist sehr lekker and all, and I hear Frankfurt has the best hookers in all the world, but it isn't as if I feel the need to escape war torn South Dakota.
Germany has no violent crime, eh?
"But, but, there's less overall.." yes yes, but "less overall" matters little when you're being attacked with a blunt instrument or knife, as you'd likely be screaming "Oh mein gott help bitte" instead of "thankfully though I will die here I will be part of a smaller statistic than the US!" Well, maybe you will, if your nationalist ego is still the most important thing to you with however many stab wounds you happen to be leaking from. I on the other hand would prefer to be able to at least attempt to save myself given the unlikely scenario in which it becomes a necessity, and thankfully where I live allows me the freedom with which to do so. You on the other hand do not wish to defend yourself in the unlikely scenario in which it becomes a necessity, and thankfully for you where you live does not allow you the freedom to do so. Problem solved, everyone's happy.
yes. this is very different than you claiming Im treating people like criminals before they own a gun.
I live here. I have heard so many gunshots. People have been murdered a few dozen feet from my front door. There are shootings daily on the local news.
you're a goddamn lunatic. Of course less overall fucking matters if you dont wanna be attacked. It means you're less bloody likely to be attacked!
Well, there are already 600,000,000+ guns in 167,457,447 people's possession. So you're too late on that one.
But you are attempting to treat people how we treat criminals (removal of rights) without them having committed a crime. Like, by definition that is what you're doing.
Sounds like you should move out of your neighborhood as it is one of those 5 counties with 50% of the murders. Hell, move to ~~paradise~~ Der Vaterland if you're so inclined, but you could literally escape that by going one or two counties over. Or stay, but if you do I'd buy a gun.
You're a goddamned moron (two can play this game). You may be less likely to be attacked, but some people are attacked there nonetheless, and for those people, frequency likely stops mattering as they are being stabbed, as it is currently happening despite the rarity. It isn't pokemon cards, they don't suddenly go "yes I'm dying but really this is lucky because it's so rare to be brutally murdered here like I currently am."