Do you think that the fediverse has something to gain with the enshitfication of discord? Are there voice chat programs in the fediverse that can benefit from it?

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[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I don't use Discord much, but apparently it works a lot more like IRC (real time discussion) than like Lemmy/SubLinks/PieFed (asynchronous discussion) or Mbin (asynchronous disc + microblogging).

If that's correct, perhaps it would be simply better to code a Fediverse alternative to Discord, and make sure that it's well integrated with Lemmy.

[–] TheSambassador@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

How would a Discord-like application integrate with Lemmy? Are chat logs federated to posts in Lemmy? Do posts in Lemmy get federated to this other chat thing? Can you just sign into chat with your Lemmy username and that's it? Is it just a chatroom that's associated with a community?

I feel like people here are like "everything should be federated" but sometimes I don't really follow the thought process. I get it with Lemmy and Mastodon, but maybe someone could explain what a Federated Discord looks like.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Someone smarter than me might have better ideas, but I picture a "Fediscord" (federated Discord) working this way:

There are multiple "Fediscord" servers. Each has its own chatrooms and users.
Users from one server are able to interact with chatrooms of other servers, as long as they federate.

Then, when federating with Lemmy instances:

You can use an account from one of those services to interact with the other, no further registration needed.
You can follow "Fediscord" chatrooms from Lemmy as if they were communities. For reference, we can already follow PeerTube channels this way. (I feel like allowing the opposite would be unwise, given that Discord tends to be fast-paced; not sure though.)
You can quote Lemmy threads/comments to discuss them in Fediscord, as if you were quoting something from another server.
Shared DM system.

[–] TheSambassador@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I could see the login part being nice, but I still don't really see the value in federating chat text. Honestly that would be a negative to me, I don't really want my chat messages copied and federated out to other servers forever. Similarly, why would I want to view a chatroom through Lemmy? Why wouldn't I just want to go to that community through it's app or site or whatever?

It just feels a bit like blockchain all over again. Federation and activitypub are great tools for some purposes but people seem to want to use them for everything.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 2 points 7 months ago

Discord isn't just "chat text", it's also "real time discussion". That's why for example you see indie game devs often creating Discord channels, to contact their userbases.

In this sense, it partially overlaps with a forum+link aggregator like Lemmy, that allows deeper and asynchronous discussion. But they're still distinct enough so both a hypothetical "Fediscord" and Lemmy would benefit from federation:

If discussion in a "Fediscord" server is getting a bit too deep for the medium, you can redirect people to a Lemmy thread.
Conversely, if people just want to chitchat, in Lemmy they'll end creating noise. They can simply do it instead in a "Fediverse" server.
A Lemmy mod team meeting in "Fediscord" to decide how they're going to moderate their Lemmy comm.

Nota bene: privacy is a concern and federating all content would be certainly unwise. Even across "Fediscord" servers. But some content is sensible, as long as you have a clear division between "public" and "private" rooms.

Similarly, why would I want to view a chatroom through Lemmy? Why wouldn’t I just want to go to that community through it is app or site or whatever?

CBA (can't be arsed) is one of the main features of the race that we belong to, humankind. If you're interested on a single "Fediscord" chatroom but can't be arsed with the rest, you could follow it through Lemmy instead - it'll be less optimal (F5, F5 all the time to see if there are new messages), but still useful.

It just feels a bit like blockchain all over again. Federation and activitypub are great tools for some purposes but people seem to want to use them for everything.

I get that when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail, but that isn't my case here - I genuinely think that the "Fediverse forums" (Lemmy, Kbin/Mbin, and any potential newcomer) are in a central position within the Fediverse, and should capitalise on it by federating as much as reasonably possible with other Fediverse services.