It's one of Putin's strategies: To make it look like it is a conflict between the US/NATO and Russia, not between Ukraine and Russia. He also tries to diminish Ukrainian sovereignity by making it appear as if the US is the overlord, as if Ukraine is an American puppet. It's all about making Ukraine look like it isn't its own country. That's why we get those bullshit historic lessons by that pathetic man-child.

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I agree that the history lessons from Putin are bs, but hard disagree that this isn't NATO/Russia but Ukraine/Russia. Do you know what a proxy war is?

[–] mellowheat@suppo.fi 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

The Vietnam War was a proxy war as well, but I'm pretty sure the (north) vietnamese still quite authentically wanted USA to gtfo.

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I agree with what you say. OP is implying that just because "It’s one of Putin’s strategies: To make it look like it is a conflict between the US/NATO and Russia, not between Ukraine and Russia." It's not true. And I would like to challenge that.

[–] novibe@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 months ago

If there’s something I learned from libs during this war is that Russia’s no1 strategy is saying the truth of how geopolitics works. Dirty Russians… using the truth against us!

[–] mellowheat@suppo.fi 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Perhaps I perceive this wrong, but it seems like the counterimplication is that this war is primarily between US/NATO and Russia with Ukraine being just a pawn. I don't think that's quite true either.

[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I mean it is mostly is and would like to hear why it's not true for you.

The case that Ukraine is mostly a pawn is that it gets major military and economic support from NATO/US https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nato-pledges-further-major-military-economic-aid-ukraine-2024-01-10/ gets information support from NATO [the public/media discourse is heavy pro ukraine; ranging from bbc, dw, france24, nyt, wsj, reuters, etc. ] NATO is picking ukraines leaders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k NATO is telling Ukraine what to do by coercing not to negotiate for peace https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/5/7344206/ While the US knew the consequences of NATO expension https://youtu.be/E3tdF2S04wg?si=cmjik9lRDryxHHEB&t=1312 [love that timestamp]

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[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 4 months ago

Ukraine lost its sovereignty back when the coup happened. The war is absolutely between NATO and Russia, and lots of NATO officials have said this fairly openly at this point. People who keep pretending otherwise are utterly disingenuous.