this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2023
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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[–] Sanyanov@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Arch is easy to install; it's a headache to manage.

If you want a stable Arch, you need to check the updates and take very granular control over packages and versioning.

While some nerds may like tinkering with their system in all those ways, for regular user Arch is simply too much effort to maintain.

[–] corship@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Sanyanov@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Useful, but still it kinda makes you read through all the update news, which is...why?

I'd like to just hit update and not bother.

[–] corship@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Then you're on your own. What the duck 🦆 do you expect to happen if you can't even invest the 10sec to skim over a message (in the few events that there even is one) to see if it affects you and any manual intervention is required.

[–] Sanyanov@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

A fully functional system, just like any other normal OS?

You hit update - boom - you get one, seamlessly, with no breakages and no other user interaction. And that's how it works pretty much everywhere - except, you know, Arch.

If you're fine with it - that's fine, go ahead and tinker all you like. But don't expect others to have the same priorities.

[–] corship@feddit.de -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah just like the FORCED Microsoft updates that broke like hundreds of businesses?

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft-reimburses-travel-agency-for-forced-Windows-10-update-damages.168378.0.html

Dude go touch some grass

[–] Sanyanov@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Man that's news from 2016, like, it's a bit rare occasion, y'know. You're way more likely to get borked by Arch even after reading all the instructions, and it did happen numerous times.

Touching grass is what I do when you take steps to intervene in your system to make an update work.

I see you are an Arch maximalist, but that goes beyond reason. Even Arch proponents are normally not as aggressive on the topic, and admit Arch is too complicated in that regard.

[–] corship@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're just going to shift goalposts every time I'll post something.

Not recent enough. Not enough cases. That's different.

And lastly you'll just claim I do it because I'm an arch maximalist, despite not knowing anything about me :)

[–] UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It is actually very easy:

  1. You setup auto-snapshots (almost trivial)
  2. You update
  3. Evaluate
    3.1) Repeat goto 2
    3.2) Rollback goto 2

The only problem here is that snapshots (and btrfs for that matter) are not the default behaviour. I would really appreciate Endeavour having this as the default setup. It is very likely what you'd want.

[–] Sanyanov@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

True, but if snapshots turn from first line of catastrophe response to a regular tool, this is not a good experience.

Also I believe Garuda has enabled snapshots and btrfs by default.

[–] UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, Garuda does, even with bootable snapshots, but it's otherwise not as clean as Endeavour. As far as I can tell, mkinitcpio/GRUB2 or their setup thereof causes more problems than it solves. My system was bricked multiple times until I switched to a dracut/systemd-boot setup, which works flawlessly since quite a while.

As for the user experience, there are 0 distros you should perform a (major) upgrade on without taking a snapshot first. I had broken systems after apt upgrade. From my point of view rolling vs versioned release are basically occasional mild vs scheduled huge headaches.