this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
137 points (100.0% liked)
Politics
10170 readers
169 users here now
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it's a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
Subcommunities on Beehaw:
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Thank you!
Just wanted to say though that it's a bit unfair to compare Iraq to this. Iraq wasn't fueled by raw emotion and rage. It was a lot more calculated since it was (framed as) a preventive measure. How the US acted the first month of Afghanistan is far more apples to apples. And from my research the US did draw immediate criticism for their bombings. And keep in mind that Afganistan is far less densly populated compared to Gaza.
"The war, launched by the United States as "Operation Enduring Freedom" in 2001, began with an initial air campaign that almost immediately prompted concerns over the number of Afghan civilians being killed. "
The number is 2300 dead civilians in 2001, and since the operation began in October thats 2300 in three months. If we extrapolate that to a full year that pace marks the most intense period of civilian deaths by a wide margin. Which matches my assumption that the opening actions, when fueled by intense emotion, leads to a disregard of civilians life. As an aside, those opening months about the same amount of civilians died as the total amount US servicemen in Afghanistan for the whole 20 year war (2300 vs 2400).
I agree, but a key difference is simply the fact that Gazans aren't allowed to leave, and power/water/food was cut before evacuations. A ground invasion in that context has to be understood with that heightened responsibility towards civilians.
As for the Afghanistan war, I think that rural versus dense urban settlement is also fundamentally different, and difficult to compare. Most of the controversy around civilian deaths in Afghanistan focus on mistargeted aerial bombardment, which I agree matches the initial operations in Gaza. But as the shift turns over to ground forces, Fallujah is probably the comparison I think matches most closely.