Guydht

Classifying Israel as Apartheid is valid if and only if Israel and Palestinians in the west bank define themselves as Israelis and treat themselves as part of the Israeli national. Surprise surprise - they don't. Neither. Israel classifies Palestinians as basically foreigners, hence no citizen right. And Palestinians don't try to push against it because all they want is a country of their own. Now, providing a Palestinian state is a whole subject in itself, but basically it's hard. And not enough foreign power is used to make it happen - that's the real disservice done to the Palestinians. They never ever talked about Israel accepting them to Israeli society, and no one expects that of them. They're literal foreigners to Israel, with work permits. Of course they won't have a government vote.

Another point was the jewish nature of Israel and how it discriminates - and that's just true. There's indeed a case to be made of Israel needing to be some part jewish, but Israel politics and laws are fucked up, especially regarding settlements. Let's hope they get their shit together and have a working government who actually does good.

And lastly, Gazans moving south. Does anybody in this world remember what war's like? Does anybody remember how many German civilian homes were bombed by the brits in WW2? Does anyone remember the civilian casualties Germany suffered?

War is war. And war is horrible. But expecting a country who just had its worst attack on its land ever to not fight the ones responsible, is extremely privileged by the world. Any state encountering such a big threat on civilian lives would do everything to destroy that threat. And that's what they're doing. The war won't end when all Gazans are dead - it'll end when Hamas has 0 armed terrorists, and 0 threatening capabilities. And that's a goal no one can criticize Israel for pursuing. (Obviously you can criticize their methods - but relative to all recent conflicts - they really are avoiding civilian lives as much as possible considering their enemy.)

Yo what's up with lemmy's being psychos saying they don't care he died since he was a republican

The man was publicly humiliated (by his standards) to the whole world and ya'll encourage it?

Whoever published the blog should be sentenced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

I mean there's a whole wikipedia page on the camps china built for them...

My point is that there are so many more wrongdoings and innocent people being prosecuted way more harshly than Palestinians in the world, and the world is only focusing on Palestinians since it's the frontline of the west vs iranian arab society. Those magnitudes of protests weren't around when china put muslims in camps or killed thousands of protestors.

This whole thing is an assault on western ideology. hamas is Iran2.0 and would massacre those same left-wing europeans or Americans who protest for them, in the name of Islam.

"we should never legitimize it"

Okay buddy, sure. Really easy to talk from a peaceful state without constant threats pointed at you. How about providing actual real solutions to conflicts instead of waiting around, doing nothing then yelling when a war breaks out because of what everyone ignored.

The rest of the world did nothing to provide peace in the region - so those same foreigners to the conflicts shouldn't point a finger and be surprised when war happens. Either leave the region alone (just like most disputes happening in Africa for example) or actually do something when it's not wartime. Trying to do something when everything is broken to the point of no return is nothing but virtue signaling.

Those protest should've happened when Hamas won elections. Those protests should've happened when right wing Israeli government came to power. Those protests should've happened when no one did anything about Hamas arming themselves, preparing for war.

Protesting now is doing nothing. Both sides are so fed up with the other that no peaceful resolution, no ceasefire could happen. And screaming about it now is not gonna change that.

It's not just whataboutism, I talked about how Israel did literally everything they could considering they're at war. It's like ya'll forgot how wars worked.

Just imagine the allied forces telling germans "hey yo things are about to get ugly here please leave to this area where we'll bomb way less". There's no other country who treats war with such careful hands, and Israel is still getting shit over it.

War is evil. Israel's wars are the least evil in the world.

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/31/1001936433/who-the-uyghurs-are-and-why-china-is-targeting-them

Dude what? I guess ya'll are really just supporting anything which is against the west, no matter how hypocritical it is. Next thing I'll hear on Lemmy how Ukraine had it coming from Russia.

And what lack of knowledge about this conflict do I have? Please enlighten me. Did Israelis not tell every possible Gazan "hey, leave this area, your terrorist leaders are hiding here and we don't like killing civilians"?

It's like ya'll leave in a fantasy world where no wrong could ever be done towards a side in a conflict which is weaker. It's like you forgot how war actually works.

Not doing any of this stuff would've meant a Palestinian state in Gaza led by Hamas.

Such a state would've killed many more jews.

Is it really that hard to see such obvious facts? What action has Palestinian ever done to warrant faith from the Israeli side that they wouldn't get massacres if Palestinians had a state.

It's as simple as that. Make Israelis not feel threatened, make a state. Do make Israelis feel threatened, get oppression.

And no other country in the world would do differently when feeling threatened. Some would do actual genocide and have 2 million dead.

Try to think as an army for just a second. When you send your troops into unknown territory which is 100% trapped, you wanna confuse your enemy. And shutting communication is exactly that.

It absolutely fails at hiding what's going on in Gaza from being revealed, but it *50% succeeds in making their enemies blind during their attack. It's just a military tactic. A proven and effective one.

For more than the last decade Israel spent 0 efforts on raising the Gaza population and completely left them to run their own educational/inner governmental funding. That proved to be the worst mistake they could ever do, as that educational program is pure hate fuel for religious extremists and the government funding (which btw is a lot of funding from foreigners) was used for rockets and anti-tank ammunition instead of safe houses for civilians. Heck, the only safe zones are the underground tunnels, which are only used for Hamas fighters.

All that means is that Israel should've either completely hammer down on stuff going in, and truly be like china murdering muslims, or completely run the region themselves, which is basically colonialism. Which option is good? None. Who can be blamed for that? The Palestinians leaders.

Don't get me wrong, Israel's leaders also chose a very bad option of leaving it alone and letting it grow into a monster, but let's face it - they had no good options on what to do with Gaza. So blaming everything that's happening purely on Israel, is just unfair. What could they have done to prevent this?

I mean, exchanging prisoners means freeing those who massacred on oct.7, and come on, Israel is not that stupid to let them run free again. That exchange will bite them tenfold in years to come if they do it (and they realized it now, hence they don't agree to it)