this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2024
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[–] Engywuck@lemm.ee 311 points 11 months ago (9 children)

never give a corporation your labour for free.

People should have known this from the beginning.

[–] sanpo@sopuli.xyz 239 points 11 months ago (4 children)

These volunteers didn't think about it in these terms.
They gave away their work for free to help people learn languages, and for a long time Duolingo seemed like the best platform for that.

Starting your own platform is much more difficult than contributing to an existing one that seems to be operated with some amount of goodwill...

[–] Engywuck@lemm.ee 45 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I understand that. Unfortunately, though, one has to expect always the worst from Corps, no matter how "good" they appear to be at the beginning.

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[–] tourist@lemmy.world 66 points 11 months ago (2 children)

but what if they give you cool digital gems

[–] Engywuck@lemm.ee 27 points 11 months ago

Yeah, that's an offer a man can't refuse.

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[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago (10 children)

Seriously. I don't know what outcome people expected. Duolingo is not a non-profit, or a community project like Anki. I hope everybody who is surprised by this is receptive to the lesson.

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[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 253 points 11 months ago (6 children)

New life lesson: never volunteer for a for-profit company.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 86 points 11 months ago

But then how would spez ever be able to take Reddit public?!

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 61 points 11 months ago (4 children)

People who keep trying to do Socialism in a Capitalist system are doomed to fail, because Socialism produces enormous surpluses and Capitalists love to just gobble that shit up.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 100 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"If peoples basic needs were met nobody would work!"

People "work" all the time of their own accord, we just call it volunteering instead of "work." People love saying "I don't want to work," but really what they mean is "I don't want my economic output stolen from me by my employer while what's left is stolen by ever increasing prices with no wage adjustment to compensate."

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 49 points 11 months ago (4 children)

People “work” all the time of their own accord, we just call it volunteering instead of “work.”

Never even mind volunteering. $50B/year in wage theft in this country. People contract to do labor and then their bosses simply short them. Back in 2019 a coal company attempted to close a mine without paying over $1M in back wages. The workers shut down the rail out of the money and seized the coal until they were made whole.

Wish more folks who got fleeced by DuoLingo had the gumption to do something similar.

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[–] joe_cool@lemmy.ml 36 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Make sure to put anything you want public under the correct license. If a platform doesn't support CC or GPL or MIT, then leave.

EDIT: Or Apache, or IDGAF, of course. ;) But what I would really want is a license that forces your content to remain free, even if used in something else. Basically copyleft: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/copyleft.html

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[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 24 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This baffles me. We've seen time and time again that for-profit will fuck you over any chance they get over a dollar if they must, and people still volunteers for them.

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[–] 800XL@lemmy.world 239 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Never ever ever ever ever give your work for free to a startup unless it's running under an open source model that guarantees even if they do go public, all that work remains openly available to everyone!

[–] Aatube@kbin.social 54 points 11 months ago (7 children)
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[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 53 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I would not do any unpaid work for anything that was not straight up copyleft.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 163 points 11 months ago (14 children)

That's right, never trust a private company that might go public in the future.

That's why you should build your communities on Discord instead. 🤡

[–] TonyOstrich@lemmy.world 134 points 11 months ago (11 children)

That shit is the most infuriating thing ever to me. It seems like so many technical discussions and communities are going to Discord now where that information is not indexed or preserved. How many issues have I had where the answer was sitting on a Discord server that will never appear in any general search result?

[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 43 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I’ve tried to use discord before but it seems just kinda… awful. It’s essentially a single uninterrupted, general purpose comment chain about a singular topic. It’s a forum meet twitter but worse than either?

[–] Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 11 months ago

Yea that's cause originally it was just meant to be gamer friends voice chatting and text chatting with each other. They build all the other features on top of what they had originally so it's terrible as a reddit/social media alternative.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 24 points 11 months ago

Yeah. I've come to believe the problem isn't Discord itself but how people use it. But I totally get your point. So many niche communities. I had to make a Discord account and then someone just fucking answers "!faq" and a bot pastes the answer. Why was that not on their GitHub page? It is what it is.

A Discord server can be created in seconds and can easily have everything they need. I get why they turn to it but it sucks.

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[–] systemglitch@lemmy.world 33 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Why discord? Everything on it will be lost without exception. Fuck discord.

[–] micka190@lemmy.world 44 points 11 months ago

It's why they put the clown face emoji at the end. Discord sucks so hard for finding information. The number of interesting projects that exclusively use Discord for their documentation is astounding and frustrating as hell.

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[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 151 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (10 children)

This has been going on for decades. CDDB, IMDB, Redhat.

Anything you volunteer for will be monetized and you will get cut off from your own contributions.

Even here on Lemmy people post Twitter images and Reddit reader apps which only helps those platforms retain mindshare even if they aren't directly profiting with ads.

[–] fidodo@lemmy.world 44 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Google has a volunteer program to make their AI better. Fucking one of the biggest corporations in the world asking for free labor and apparently people do it?

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 47 points 11 months ago (5 children)

You were/are doing it every time you solved a Captcha to prove you aren't a robot.

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[–] sukhmel@programming.dev 33 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This is a bit of "no true Scotsman" fallacy. If something you volunteer for hasn't been monetized you can always say 'yet'

FOSS is something people volunteer for and it mostly doesn't get monetized and cut off. Sometimes this means that the original is cut off but a fork lives on, so I would rather say that volunteering for a closed product is dangerous in that regard, not volunteering forany product

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[–] theherk@lemmy.world 30 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Hashicorp recently commandeered its community built products from thousands of contributors by changing open source projects to an ambiguous if not hostile BSL. Opentofu for any current terraform users out there.

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[–] sab@kbin.social 142 points 11 months ago (9 children)

Anyone who has a passion for open source and wants to learn Spanish should check out LibreLingo! It's also a nice project for people who want to contribute to something that is not owned by a company, though it's a bit too early for contributors who have language skills but no coding experience.

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[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 97 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

And here I am just pissed that Duolingo keeps overhauling their whole program. Like, in less than 2 years time, they've had 3 different versions of the website and of course it wipes out all of your progress and approximates where you may be in their new system. Except the latest. The latest update just wipes all your shit out and says "good luck fuckface!" I've become less and less a fan of Duo over the last 4 years and yeah, not gonna do the AI thing with it anymore. Sari can go on vacation with my one-eyed dog named Max and eat cheese sandwiches for all I care.

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[–] Pretzilla@lemmy.world 80 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yea it's become highly enshittified and actively punishes users that don't subscribe. Fuckers.

[–] NOSin@lemmy.world 29 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (16 children)

Can't speak for the entshitification but actively punished unsubscribed users?

I've been using it for two months, learning Germans, I just use Firefox in android instead of the app and I get no ads, only 5 failures but I rarely reach that on a daily basis (I don't want to burnout and I'm pretty sure it's better for learning to not go too fast) and if I ever reach it, I currently have 1k gems. I'm actually surprised at how little use I'd get out of the subscription.

[–] PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 28 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I used Duo pretty solid for two or three years - ended up subscribing to it.

The benefits were negligible - the biggest thing for me was offline play. I used to do a lot of air travel, so the ability to cover a subject or two was super helpful.

The streak freeze was the only other real "bonus" for those who game a shit about it. I started to get quite protective of it when it reached four figures, but I kicked it into touch when I wasn't learning much more than vocabulary. Duo is fantastic for getting a foothold on a language, but it only gets you through the first two or three exchanges of a conversation.

I enjoyed my time with the owl though.

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[–] CAVOK@lemmy.world 67 points 11 months ago (9 children)

I'm contributing to openstreetmap because I think there should be a free alternative to Google or Apple maps.

Am I running the risk of having my contributions stolen?

[–] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 44 points 11 months ago (1 children)

OSM is run by a foundation - https://www.openstreetmap.org/about

This makes it a lot more difficult to cock it up compared to a shareholder run company.

[–] CAVOK@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Thanks. I'll continue my small contributions then.

If anyone want to help I can recommend StreetComplete. It's a bit like pokemon go, but you'll help improve the map of the world instead. Only in android now I think.

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[–] omnomed@lemmy.world 30 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Open source is a safe bet since anyone can make a new fork(Spin-off) of the original if it went down a direction you didn't like or just wanted to make a version with your preferred features. So openstreetmap is the current safest option since it has an Open Database License.

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[–] wafflez@lemmy.world 58 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I just wish there were foss alternatives to Duolingo

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 32 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

They exist, but they often lack the front end polish and they never get the kind of publicity enjoyed by their for-profit peers.

10,000 sentences and OpenWords are others to consider.

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[–] fossilesque@mander.xyz 57 points 11 months ago (10 children)

I saw one interview with the CEO on Reddit and deleted the app. The guy is an absolute nonce.

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[–] brrt@sh.itjust.works 47 points 11 months ago (12 children)

I still had the app installed on my iPhone because I wanted to learn a new language a few years back. Just recently checked their App Store page and saw extensive data collection, monthly subscriptions and some kind of “gem” currency. Immediately deleted.

[–] Waluigis_Talking_Buttplug@lemmy.world 30 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They tried to gamify the process, you use gems to buy an off day for a streak

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[–] AbsurdityAccelerator@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago (9 children)

Any advice for an alternative for Japanese learning? I am on a two week streak and getting ready to give up because it's super repetitive.

[–] Shoe@lemm.ee 30 points 11 months ago (1 children)

A friend of mine moved to Japan about 10 years ago and has spent a lot of time solo developing his site, Kanpeki Study, for efficiently learning Japanese kanji and vocabulary in bitesize, daily chunks. I'd be doing all his effort a massive disservice if I didn't mention it - hopefully turns out to be a good fit for you 😄.

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[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 25 points 11 months ago (15 children)

And the product now is traaaash.

I used to use duolingo to learn every language whenever I visited a country, and I can't use it at all anymore.

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[–] unreasonabro@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Oh look, theft that's legally protected because something starts making profit! It's like the existence of the stock market is the central problem with capitalism, since it's just an excuse to be a shitty person and is only ever used in that capacity. "fuck you, i get more money this way" is a dumb fucking principle to operate a society on. Antisocial, in fact. Google's IPO can be directly traced to every single problem the internet (and so, society) has right now.

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