this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
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[–] NuPNuA@lemm.ee 28 points 1 year ago (7 children)

As far as I'm aware, we don't have any natural deposits of fissonable material in the UK so we'll bot be truly independent. Green energy is what we need for that, we have plenty of wind, waves and sunlight.

[–] utopianfiat@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Raw materials are not the choke point for nuclear energy independence- enrichment facilities are, of which the UK has three that produce an exportable surplus. Even if it was, Canada and Australia are second and third in the world in Uranium reserves, which is convenient for the country that houses their King.

Nuclear energy is green- it's the only energy worldwide that internalizes its externalities and is made to cost what it costs to the environment.

[–] NuPNuA@lemm.ee 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Demanding tithes of nuclear material from commonwealth nations by royal decree is so wonderfully neo-feudal sci-fi, I love it.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago

And if the royal decree doesn't work I suppose we could pay them for it but it's better to not try that one out of the box just in case it works.

[–] utopianfiat@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sorry but that's an absurd way to construe the point I was making. "Energy Independence" when used in a geopolitical context involves essentially fuel-exporting nations exploiting their supply chain position in order to win political concessions from importers- such as Russia holding Northern Europe hostage over oil and fossil gas in response to European resistance to the invasion of Ukraine. Commonwealth nations share close relationships that are unlikely to degenerate to the point where Australia or Canada are invading their neighbors and holding the UK's electricity hostage.

[–] NuPNuA@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know, I was just having a bubble, I sware people are far to literal on thos site compared to Reddit.

[–] utopianfiat@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I don't know if that's true lol, this is reddit we're talking about.

But yeah, I missed that you were pisstaking; my b.

[–] Flyberius@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, we can't even build a rail line on time or to budget, I can't see us being able to build nuclear reactors any time soon.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

Starmer Voice Where I come from, we're not great at building rail lines because we're too busy railing lines from the bosom of this beautiful nation

[–] Wintermute@lemmy.villa-straylight.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nuclear power is green energy.

[–] NuPNuA@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Technically yes, it still creates some waste to be dealt with. I guess arguably you have the same with decommissioned turbines, solar panels, etc with other forms.

[–] utopianfiat@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

It's the only form of energy generation that internalizes all of its own costs- including disposing waste and insuring cleanup.

If we forced oil companies to internalize the cost of fracking casualty and wastewater reinjection alone, gas would be $50/gal.

[–] lambchop@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

UK, plenty of sunlight? Edit: for the down voter, this is what the UK thinks of the sun https://lemmy.tf/post/538103

[–] NuPNuA@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

This year's been a bit odd with all the rain, but we've been having great summers of late. We get plenty of sun the winter too despite the temperature.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago

It's a bit of a meme that the UK is always rainy. It isn't always rainy, it does rain a lot but it doesn't rain anywhere close to all the time and when it's not raining it can get quite hot, quite unbearably in fact because we don't have air conditioning.

Anyway heat isn't really relevant to solar panels, what they really need is just sunlight in general, and we get plenty of that even if it isn't particularly hot. In fact solar panels don't actually like being particularly hot so they probably won't work very well in the Sahara desert. Despite what everyone may think.

[–] lntl@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Unfortunately, renewables cannot do it alone and I wish that wasn't the case. Pairing renewables with emission free nuclear is the only option we really have to meet current and future demands without fossil fuels.

Google search found some uranium in England: https://www.nature.com/articles/246180a0.pdf

[–] grahamsz@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You can definitely achieve more if you can work the supply-side as well. In theory if the smart grid were well executed then it'd be possible for consumers to modulate their heat, charging, tumble dryers etc... to provide more elasticity.

Unfortunately in a lot of places the incentives aren't that high. I don't have that option where I live, but in denver the lowest consumer rate is around 7c and the highest around 17c/kWh. It's hard to invest in new appliances to exploit that difference, but if the off-peak number were 1c then I think you'd see much more take-up of smart car chargers and people delaying when they do laundry.

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[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (16 children)

Unfortunately, renewables cannot do it alone

They absolutely can when paired with storage. Nuclear is not needed.

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[–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (13 children)

And Hinkley Point was such a roaring success, let's pour more money down the bottomless barrel!

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's an obvious distraction pushing the topic of nuclear power again, just days after they prepared to open massive new oil and gas production sites while stifling the well-going UK wind industry.

But there are enough people out there brain-washed by decades of anti-renewable propaganda that it will work. And in the end we have just another country failing to build the proper amount of nuclear base load AND the proper amount of renewables... but at least someone smart "thought ahead" and worked for enough fossil fuels to compensate.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago

The conservatives just operate on the assumption that everybody else doesn't have a clue what's going on because they don't.

I bet they were told that the nuclear commission were going to open another power plant and just ignored them and gave out the oil drilling contracts anyway.

[–] lntl@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Burning coal is cheap, that's why we're here. I'll pay more for electric today to leave a planet for our children. Wish my parents did that for me.

Only a fool would consider the cost in dollars alone.

[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Only a fool would advocate for paying way more for nuclear when renewables + storage are substantially cheaper.

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[–] jabjoe@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago

Actually coal energy is expensive. Renewable energy is cheap energy.

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Nope, burning coal was cheap a long time ago and allowed the people to accululate enough wealth to push for more coal (and brain-wash people to believe coal is cheap; and also how expensive renewables are). Just like the nuclear producers did decades ago to tell the tale of how there's no alternative to nuclear.

The actual reality looks like this. And if you think that you need to pay more for electricity to not destroy the planet that's already their propaganda having done their work.

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[–] Wirrvogel@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

Also it works so flawlessly for the French (not*), why not do it too?

*France is slowly overcoming stress-corrosion problems (35 out of 56 reactors were down, drought is another problem), and Finland celebrates the commissioning of a new reactor (albeit 14 years late), while on the other hand monthly German nuclear generation will be zero for the first time in over 50 years.

[–] Meowoem@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The real thing is the cost, the cost per kWh is falling so going nuke and locking in to a price that's already above market makes no sense at all.

The Tories are ideologically opposed to renewables because of some weird culture war thing, plus they hate the idea of locally sustainable communities not being totally under the control of billionaires - people are a lot easier to scare into obedience when you can tell them their power might be shut off. The main reason though is huge projects can only go to huge companies, they don't want lots of little solar farms they want their oil baron buddies to maintain their monopolies, that's the only reason we still hear so much about this now allbut obsolete technology.

[–] Wirrvogel@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I totally agree and it is the same for Germany. That's why especially wind energy for South Germany was held back for so long, how dare communities go energy independent. It seems the resistance there is broken now, at least I hope it is and not just an election promise that gets broken after the Bavarian election.

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[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Ya know, wind and solar are independent too, and much cheaper.

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