this post was submitted on 30 May 2025
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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 6 days ago

Yahweh was just one of many gods worshipped at that time. Which is why like 1/3 of the ten comandments are related to his own insecurities

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 24 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yaweh was one of the sons of El in Caananite religion, which has the same Noah myth, and the religion/people is based on one of his son's decendants. El was accepted by Greeks as the same god as Zeus. Many other Caananite polytheistic gods had Greek equivalents.

When Moses wrote the tablets, he was basically doing a religious coup to claim the Hebrew/Israelite "subgod" was the primary god. Denouncing Idolatry, and "thou shalt not covet" was also a rebelion against the main/historical Phoenecian/Caananite religion to when Israelites war against Phoenecians "do not covet their idols, destroy them".

[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

"when Moses wrote the tablets"

The historical context here is really interesting, but this line is a head scratcher. A) god didn't write the tablets, Moses did it himself, B) tacit support for historicity of Moses. It's like not the religious viewpoint, but not the secular one either. Though I may be splitting hairs about a nonessential clause here.

[–] absentbird@lemm.ee 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

In the Bible story God made the first set, but they were destroyed by Moses in a meltdown. Moses had to carve the rewritten replacements which are the ones that get written down.

Regardless of whether someone thinks Moses is historical, the story itself is a coup of sorts.

Unrelated, but has anyone else noticed the ten commandments read like a bad AI prompt?

[–] dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago

Ah yeah forgot that part. Been awhile since Sunday school.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)
  1. religion is capable of inventing a god that doesn't exist.
  2. Israelites needed a propaganda boost to rebel against Phoenecians, and offshoot religion helps.
  3. Elders that went up to the mountaintop with Moses can unanimously be on board with Hasbara to fuel war against Phoenicians. Ends justify the lie.
  4. Yaweh becomes supreme god, and Phoenicians deserve death for failing to accept all commandments. Including/especially the very weird idolatry one, that gods would typically accept as narcissistic reverence. Thou shalt kill all heretics.
[–] mdurell@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

It's just hard to directly translate accurately from the original Klingon texts.

[–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

This is my first wife Yahweh, and my second wife Amen-Ra.

[–] Philosaraptor7@lemm.ee 8 points 6 days ago

This take is actually pretty close to the original reading. In the ancient near east it was a given that there were many deities. It's not that the worldview of the Bible is a strict monotheism but taht YHWH is the supreme God and the source of all.

[–] hakunawazo@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago (1 children)

If Cthulhu is your number 2 you immediately need to check for hemmorhoids.

[–] _stranger_@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago

Nothing cleans you put better than a tablespoon of incomprehensible, mind shattering horror in your morning coffee.

[–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

Back in the day you would pick and choose the gods you worshipped, like from the greek or roman pantheon. But if you chose to worship God you would have to put him literally before the other gods.

There's a logical problem to a language-based religion, in that even a literal interpretation is still an interpretation. Your understanding is not infallible, and no one on Earth likely believes The Bible, 100% verbatim, yet many claim to.

If the source material is always fuzzy then who is to say what a real christian is? Who is the authority? What is? The book itself isn't sentient and Jesus isn't here to break any ties.

But then, you'll get people who say they know God, that they talk to God and it would seem as though their belief and participation is, from their perspective, at least, beyond the limitations of the Christian source-code. They allegedly know God via dimensional speed-dial via.... vibes. I don't believe he does, but they do, so, rules of engagement, I temporarily have to believe he does until I'm done speaking to the person with mental health problems.

Living in the American south is like having multiple gears of belief to swap into like a 6-speed transmission based on who you're talking to. Alright, what flavor of kool aid is this person drinking?...

[–] Hazzard@lemm.ee 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

If you look into the Hebrew a little more, the word we translate here as "God" is "Elohim", which is better translated as something like "spiritual beings". This word is also used for angels, demons, etc.

In fact, the phrase "Lord of Lords" is actually "Elohim of Elohim", making it a statement that he's the greatest spiritual being, which is a lot more distinct from "King of Kings" than we usually notice when he's referred to as "King of kings and Lord of lords".

Elohim is even used once to refer to the "ghost" of Samuel, when Saul seeks out a medium to ask him for advice in 1 Samuel 28.

[–] menas@lemmy.wtf 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] nexguy@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

All of the translations have something in common... they say have no "other gods". They don't say "there are no other gods"

[–] menas@lemmy.wtf -1 points 6 days ago

There is some, but not the most part :

The Message Bible 3 No other gods, only me.

Knowing which some is the most accurate is a multi millennium debate, with not clear answer. Shall digging in ?

[–] Jankatarch@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

Now read in original language.

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world -1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I think it says "thou shalt have no other gods besides me."

[–] m0darn@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 days ago

I think that is just how monotheists prefer to translate it, I believe "before" is more impartial.

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 68 points 1 week ago (12 children)

The German translation reads "Du sollst keine anderen Götter neben mir haben" so "[...] no other gods besides me", which explicitly forbids paying homage to other gods.

[–] DreamAccountant@lemmy.world 49 points 1 week ago (6 children)

100 languages, 100 different translations. Then translated from dead languages. Then changed to suit a tyrant. Then translated back to another language.

If you think any of that original fiction is still there, you're a fucking idiot. If you don't think it's fiction, you're an even bigger idiot.

[–] SPRUNT@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This is the point of view that I've had since elementary school after a game of "Telephone".

If you can't put 6 people in a line, whisper something to the first, and have the same thing come from the last, what are the chances any of those books contain any original text? Especially when you have sycophantic rulers like Orange Hitler looking to bilk the masses and trying to rule the world.

Religion is a tool of fear and control to keep the population where you want them. It is broadly and repeatedly used to justify the absolute worst actions in humanity. Religion is the fuel that makes individuals hate entire countries of people they have never met.

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[–] diykeyboards@lemmy.world 37 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The Bible itself acknowledges other gods. When God made Man "in our image" he was speaking to the pantheon of gods.

There are other examples, but I'm no scholar and my toast is almost ready.

[–] QuarterSwede@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (2 children)

No, he was speaking to the triune God, 3 in 1, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are the same God.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 6 days ago

No, he was speaking about Ahura Mazda

[–] diykeyboards@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

The trinity is a post-biblical reinterpretation, from around 4th century AD.

[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 37 points 1 week ago (6 children)

I mean, there's even other godlike characters in the Bible. Satan may not be the most powerful deity in the book but he's canonically a deity. Same for angels and their ilk. Hell, even the later bits struggle to keep a lid on the numbers, jumping through hoops to make the claim that three deities is actually one.

Way back when, the religion that turned into Judaism was openly polytheistic, and simply held that Yahweh, the king of the pantheon and God of war and weather, was the only god worthy of worship.
Over time Yahweh merged with an adjoining religions god El, and started the transition to being the only god, instead of just the only worthy god.
This transition happened literally a thousand years after many of the earliest texts were written, so there's a lot of verbiage where the deity explains that the other gods aren't important, which is later clarified to them not existing, or really just being servants and not at all lower tier gods in a complex pantheon.
It's why there's so many weird turns of phrase, beyond it being thousands of years old and translated a lot.
"El" being a word that was used for both "a god" and "this god" didn't help. "The high god divided the world for all the gods, and our god God the only God and creator of all was given our land as he's the high god and father of God the only God of the sky and also that mountain".

Different parts of the world took a lot of the same root deities and went a different direction with them. There's a degree of overlap between aspects of ancient Greek religion and the Abrahamic religions because parts of each of them came from a common root. Just one mushed then together and made the grammar extra confusing. "King sky god", "water god", "afterlife god" being the children of mother and father cosmic creator gods. Also a big sea snakes who are up to no good. That one had legs, so to speak.

[–] chaogomu@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago

I feel the need to add some context here.

The patriarchal push to erase the pantheon started just before the Babylonian Exile under the reign of King Josiah. He ruled from 640 to 609 BCE.

His son Ellakim (or Jehoiakim) refused to pay tribute to the Neo-Babylonians which resulted in 60 years of slavery for some 7000 Judeans.

It was only in 539 BCE when the Neo-Babylonian Empire fell that they were allowed to go home.

The Judeans come home, but their temple has been sacked and most of their sacred texts burnt, so they rebuild and recreate.

This is when Noah and Moses were invented, a long with anything before Solomon, and even much of his life as well.

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[–] epicstove@lemmy.ca 34 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of this history is iffy at best,

Iirc, Early Judaism wasn't monotheistic like it, Christianity, and Islam are now.

The people at the time had multiple gods, one of which was a minor god associated with storms. At some point this god was boosted into popularity and became the primary god of the old testament and eventually THE god of the 3 Religions.

The line being written like this could be a holdover from this extremely early culture which was initially Polytheistic.

OR it's just a funky translation and just ment to mean "Don't worship someone as a God like their any better than me.THE God."

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago

Iirc the Bible never says there is only one god. Only that the Israelites should only worship Yahweh.

[–] Bruncvik@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago

Fun fact: In the Old Testament, God first calls himself as El Shaddai, which many scholars translate as "God of the Shaddai people". So, even He doesn't see Himself as the universal gods, just one of many.

[–] Postmortal_Pop@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago (4 children)

A common misconception, it actually means alphabetically as god's true name is A. Aardvark.

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[–] Nougat@fedia.io 16 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Start from the beginning. The text makes it absolutely clear that there "are other gods".

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