Not free software? No, thanks.
I'm very happy with Newpipe, which respects their users' freedom.
this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2023
41 points (68.1% liked)
Technology
58369 readers
3832 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Is there a particular aspect of the FUTO license you are concerned with? The code is publicly available, and the license seems to allow you to do anything you want, except sell the code. Other than not allowing you to re-package and sell the code, it seems like your rights are very similar to anything distributed via the GPL.
Am I missing something?
repackaging is a fundamental software freedom. that's just for starters.
Here I leave a comment I saw here for a more detailed explanation.
Friendly reminder that Grayjay is only source-available.
FUTO Temporary License (FTL) violates the following open-source principles:
- Open source licenses must allow free redistribution. FTL allows license suspension and termination at any time, without notice, for any or no reason.
- Open source licenses must allow source code distribution. FTL allows restrictions to access the code at any time, without notice, for any or no reason.
- Open source licenses must allow modifications. FTL allows modifications only for non-commercial use, or maybe not even that. FTL dodges the word modifications here, no clue.
- Open source licenses must explicitly allow distribution of software built from modified source code. FTL forbids distribution of software built from modified source code for commercial use.
- Open source licenses must not discriminate against persons/groups and fields of endeavor. FTL allows license suspension and termination at any time, without notice, for any or no reason.
The FTL enables the following practices:
- Copyright holders can change the license terms.
- Copyright holders can re-license everything.
- Copyright holders can target specific groups and individuals with discriminatory license terms.
- Copyright holders can close source everything.
- Copyright holders can forbid specific groups and individuals from using their work.
My main gripe here is that the video sells a source-available software with severe usage restrictions as open-source. These restrictions may sound reasonable to people outside of the open-source world, especially to people who use similar wording in their own terms of service, but nobody would touch your software with a ten foot pole with a software license like that.
repackaging is a fundamental software freedom
Re-packaging is fine. You just can't sell it.
They're just trying to prevent a company from making money off the free labor of the authors. It's the same issue that has plagued other projects, such as Elastic Search, which ultimately led it to change licenses. And it's why MariaDB created the BSL, which they and other companies have adopted (very similar terms here - source free to use for non-commercial purposes).
If the hangup is specifically that they can change the terms, or revoke rights altogether, the other licenses also allow for that - that's how these projects are changing licenses at all, and it happens quite a bit. I have personally contributed to projects that were GPL, and then went Apache.
As a developer, I could certainly see not wanting to build on the project while the license is what it is, but as a user, I don't think this license is bad. I also think this is likely temporary (hence the name - "FUTO Temporary License"), and the tight grip on the rights are probably just so they can re-license later (hopefully to something a little more permissive). I could definitely be wrong, but given Louis's track record of fighting for things like right-to-repair, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt here. He could certainly prove me wrong though, if they do anything shady. Feel free to rub it in my face if he ever does.
Edit:
Just for proof, here's the specific line that says you can re-package and redistribute, from section 2, line 2:
- You may provide the code to anyone else and publish excerpts of it for the purposes of review, compilation and non-commercial distribution, provided that when you do so you make any recipient of the code aware of the terms of this license, they must agree to be bound by the terms of this license and you must attribute the code to the provider.
It's a revokable license. Nobody in their right mind will touch software with a revokable license.
As a user, or a developer? As a user, I don't think it matters. As a developer, I think other licenses have similar carve outs, e.g. the GPLv3 section 8 is a whole section on "termination" - the copyright holder can revoke your rights for any ticky-tack violation of the license, and at their discretion, the revocation can be permanent.
Additionally, even with other FOSS licenses, the copyright holder can re-license the project. If I had to guess, this ability to re-license is probably why it is written as it is - the license is called the "FUTO Temporary License." I would assume it's written as is so they can re-license later, and they just want to cover their bases now. It's entirely possible that's incorrect, and they'll clamp down. I'm personally willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (though having said that, I have no intention of buying, using, or contributing to this project).
the GPL revocation requires violating the license terms and it's a clause just to prevent people from using GPL code and not giving back their code. The GPL allows your fiercest competitor or enemy country to use your code and you can't revoke the license as long as they publish their code too.
the FUTO license can revoke the license just because Rossmann says so. It is a mechanism to keep Rossmann the owner of everything that spawns from the code of the app and being the only one who can make money from it. If Rossmann doesn't like someone who wants to redistributes the app, he can immediately revoke their license. Which is fine for a proprietary app. The issue is that he keep calling it "open source".
even with other FOSS licenses, the copyright holder can re-license the project
Re-licensing the project means future releases go out under a new license. Past releases remain as they are, because they are non-revokable (unless breached; but let's be real, if you breach an agreement you should stop benefiting from it).
As a user, or a developer?
Both. A user that doesn't care about licensing is typically called a pirate.
Number of people have contacted Louis Rossmann and asked him to stop calling this app open source because it simply fails the definition of open source and his response has been very lacking. Clearly he doesn't understand what open source is and now he is knowingly misrepresenting this app as open source. He seems to want the legitimacy and credibility that comes with open source but not want to let go of the control that needs to happen for open source to function. This is very disappointing and I'm staying far away from this product.
can we stop advertising this app already? it's not open source. people needs to stop licking Rossmann's ass.
right to repair is great, we can all agree in that. but when it comes to software, the guy can't stand the idea of people using his source as they please and he wrote a source available license and keeps calling it open source. as other comments have pointed out, it is not.
Notable FAQs
Grayjay is currently Android exclusive. A desktop version is planned.
God,… dammit.…
Freetube is a great desktop app
I use Songtube
There is zero chance I will install SongTube right now.
I only give permission to install apps to app stores and app managers. The author should put in the work to have the app included in the main F-Droid repository before I could even consider recommending the app.
Practically, no apps should be downloading updates to themselves.
https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/com.artxdev.songtube
Izzyondroid repo is maintained by an active and trusted F-Droid core contributor, don't you use it and why not ? If it is really bad I could change for libretube which is second in my list but not as beautiful.
I'm familiar with Izzy. The main objection I have is that apps in that repository aren't built from source independently. I think it's a terrible trend to throw away the checks and benefits of using an app store, by telling people to turn off safety features and install from untrusted sources. TOFU is not a replacement for reproducible builds and binary white-listing.
This app in particular is trying to update itself, which I find unacceptable.
Ok, thanks for clarifying
I feel like a search plugin needs to be added to PeerTube to allow search and use of YouTube, with the added benefit of downloading the video (in the background) and adding it to PT.
I like the idea of having an app where I can have video services in one place. Having some issues with GrayJay, but it says "Under Construction" so I guess that's to be expected. Is anyone else planning similar apps? I know there are ones specifically for YouTube but this is the first I'm aware of that is trying to include more.
That's interesting. If it just supports sponsor block like Vanced does, it would be awesome.
Use LibreTube or NewPipe x SponsorBlock.
I have already a sponsor block with Youtube Vanced, but I need it specifically for this app.
Not at the moment