1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
Just take whatever calls to you. AI isnt going to affect anything long term, but if you dont actually like software engineering you have no chance when you are competing with applicants for jobs who wholeheartedly love the craft.
If you are planning to use AI at any point in your education, save yourself the time and money and just take management. There is no future for your AI-mangled lack of ability in our industry.
but if you dont actually like software engineering you have no chance when you are competing with applicants for jobs
It's called faking enthusiasm and got me every job I had. I hate my job and can't compete at all with the hotshot kiddos pouring all their lifeforce into it.
But I stay under the radar, rake in the same amount of cash they do, and stop work at 5pm while they are working till midnight and on weekends for some reason.
Work to live, not live to work. This is the way
Go after what you love.
If you want job security pursue database and Cobol.
A degree in management is useless. "Management" isn't a job, it's a title. You still need to be skilled at something useful to manage other people. These kinds of degrees are for football players that have to have a degree and the party crowd that needs training on how to be a functioning human. This is a perfect degree if you want a soul-sucking job in megacorp HR or banal white collar office management leading a team of minimum wage temps. IMO, learn a productive skill instead.
The CS market is very saturated (at least in the US). I'm a lead software dev responsible for hiring and probably 90% of the resumes I get are from people needing H1B sponsorship; this is where the saturation is coming from. Most of the candidates are pretty weak with an increasing over reliance on AI assistance, so if you have a knack for programming using your own brain, you should go for it. Just be prepared for a long and draining job hunt.
Management is managing people and/or processes. If you don’t think it’s a productive skill, it’s because you’ve never done it or understand the value it brings.
Good luck completing a product or being profitable without any.
You're missing a key point here: Management is a secondary function, in the sense that management doesn't in itself produce anything of value. When done correctly, it enhances the productivity of those actually producing something.
In order to be effective at management, you need to have a good idea of what the people you are managing do. Otherwise, you won't be able to appropriately manage resources and help people be effective by moving support to the right places. "Management" as a degree aims to teach people how to manage resources they don't understand, and more often than not ends up producing managers that have no idea what the engineers and technicians they're managing actually do. These managers are usually more of a burden on the people they're managing than anything else. Every good or decent manager or leader I've come across has a background from the field of the people they're managing.
I’d say I’d agree with most of that in the sense that the manager you’re talking about is a process manager.
I already know java from my high school (cuz I was interested back then) but after looking at the current number of layoffs I'm scared to opt for CS
And is it true that AI is going to make SWE's work more efficient and create more jobs? Or is it just people coping?
IMO AI is a bubble and it will burst in the next year or two. We use AI at work and there are benefits, but I do not believe AI will be replacing anyone other than the absolute bottom of the talent pool. It's mostly going to accelerate the productivity of developers (creating more value for the company with no increase in wages for you, of course).
Mass layoffs happen every couple years in the software world. One of Microsoft, Google, Salesforce, Oracle, etc. will do layoffs and the rest will do it too "because market conditions". They'll then rehire that many people 6 months later. It's a tool they use to clean out lower performers and replace them without having to go through the arduous process of firing someone for performance reasons. The US economy is going to shit right now, so that's giving them an excuse to do it; it's not a sign that the software industry is in trouble.
Thanks for the comments man!!
I would go with CS. It's very easy later to switch to management with a CS background, but it's im possible to switch to CS with å management background.
What makes you happy to do? It may be neither.
I’m an Ops and HR manager (weird combo I know) because I love the #s game and clean processes and also get a kick out of helping people develop and succeed.
I love computers but didn’t want to kill my joy in tinkering so I didn’t pursue them in higher education. I’m self taught in that regard.
If your goal is money, become an investment banker. I kind of wish I knew about this option when I was young. Those people are all millionaires at age 30.
Your life will suck for 10 years but you'll have enough of a nest egg you can retire at 35 if you want.
But for that you gotta be in one of the top 10-20 unis of the QS ranking. And I can't be even in top 50 so investment banking isn't a option for me
That's what I heard and read from everywhere. If you know some other way then you may suggest some
What are you going to believe? Something you read everywhere or advice from a random trustworthy guy on the internet?
I would believe what I read everyday. But if the random trustworthy guy can give me some other alternative, I could just research about it
If you've always wanted to pursue CS, do CS.
Honestly, there's a lot of hype around AI. Companies are trying to figure out how to incorporate LLMs into their workflows, but no one has meaningfully succeeded yet past using it as an automated StackOverflow (which is usually wrong or outdated, just like StackOverflow). Yeah, startups will claim that things like cursor have saved them hundreds or thousands of working hours, but then they get burned their AIs leave in their API keys and code security flaws into their services. In the best case, they've created a nightmare codebase that will raise the turnover rates for their software developers significantly.
If you are actually passionate about CS, get a CS degree and don't use AI for problem solving. Maybe debugging/concept explanations if it gets better, but don't let it solve problems for you. Designing solutions, to problems, critically thinking about their strengths/weaknesses, and working through them is exactly what a CS degree is supposed to teach you how to do, so don't throw that away by having AI do your work for you.
I've read some takes that basically said the following:
The market for devs will shrink, but the market for senior devs will grow greatly.
Assuming that's true, you won't have to worry if you enjoy programming and are going to actively gain tons of skills in your free time.
If you won't be that person, then I'm not sure if CS is good for you.
Management will take you further and give you many more and different doors to open
Computer Science will have a grind in it and maybe one day you make it big with something but it will require long hours and many difficult days and coworkers
thats just my perspective as a person who has been in IT for almost 30 years
Management is definitely more mobile and versatile.
[off topic?]
I found this book extremely helpful.
Discover What You Are Best At by Linda Gail.
Six self-tests you can finish in half a day, and then a list of jobs that use those skills.
Pointed me to a career I'd never considered.
There are probably a lot of things you haven't even thought of.
If you want to pursue CS because you can make money (you did say the alternative was mgmt), DON'T. We don't need more of you in our industry. It used to be fun before all the would-be lawyers and would-be doctors who don't care about tech got here. Study literature or something. Leave tech alone.
Edit: self-taught, no degree.
I was more interested in programming back then. I even learned java in highschool. I never said I wasn't interested in programming but you gotta see the reality too
Passion doesn't always bring money at home. There is a reason why animators and artists aren't paid as much as they deserve (I'm not talking about the top 1%)
CS related degrees are useless. Tech is something that you need to be constantly on top of and perpetually trying to expand your skills and knowledge. Assuming you have a strong foundation in math and logic, a degree in CS will not help you much.
My degree is in finance with a minor in philosophy. All knowledge technology knowledge I have is self taught, but I was able to mix my love of technology and my finance education to enjoy a good run in fintech and infosec.
This is absolutely not true. Yes, the computer science field is constantly changing, which is exactly why having a strong grasp of fundamentals is incredibly beneficial. Any competent CS program will be teaching you how to approach programming in general (data structures, concepts, algorithms, protocol design, etc.) instead of focusing directly on specific languages. This is exactly because technology changes so frequently.
In my entire 4-year CS degree, I only took 1 class where the content in that class was specific to a certain programming language or technology. That class was called "Programming in C++" and it was an optional elective class. Sure, a lot (not all) of my classes were based on specific languages (Java, JS and frameworks, Lisp, C, C++, python, etc.) but the content in them was easily applicable to most general programming. In some of my classes we were free to use whichever language we wanted as long as we could get the compiler running on the submission server's docker environment.
Yes, you can probably still become a software developer if you are dedicated enough to learning on your own, but in the current job market getting a CS job is definitely not a given anymore, especially when you'll be competing against 1000s of other resumes with CS degrees on them. But a CS degree will make that learning process a lot easier, and will probably give you a more complete understanding of everything.
*Manglement
They say programmers will be replaced eventually with ai. Already it helps me with my job.
But you can already replace management with ai.
Their job doesn’t require ai. Just a spreadsheet lol
By management I meant BBA (Bachelors of Business Administration) for getting a job in Management Consulting
Would companies trust AI to make those decisions which is done by management consultants?
Already it helps me with my job
You mean AI?
Yes. I use ai like a junior dev I dont have to babysit.
I could replace all my managers all the way up to CEO with ai.
Today.
Learning logic is good.
Learning how to “manage” people who do logic?
Unnecessary.
The ai apocalypse will mean more demand for coders and logicians and less demand for those who understand basic accounting and expect to be paid more than those who do the actual work.
Thanks. That perspective was quite helpful
I could be wrong but short of a legally protected ruling class the ruling class cannot exist for much longer.
