this post was submitted on 16 Mar 2025
55 points (78.9% liked)

World News

34663 readers
629 users here now

News from around the world!

Rules:

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Rumblestiltskin@lemmy.ml
AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml
jackmarxist@lemmy.ml
zephyreks@lemmy.ml
OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
55
German spy agency 'believed Covid likely started in lab' (www.bbc.com)
submitted 20 hours ago by geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
32 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Germany's foreign intelligence service believed there was a 80-90% chance that coronavirus accidentally leaked from a Chinese lab, German media say. Two German newspapers say they have uncovered details of an assessment carried out by spy agency BND in 2020 but never published.

The intelligence service had indications that the Wuhan Institute of Virology had been carrying out experiments where viruses are modified to become more transmissible to humans for research, they say.

China repeated its denial saying the cause "should be determined by scientists" - and pointed to a World Health Organization investigation which found the lab-leak theory was "extremely unlikely".

The lab leak hypothesis has been hotly contested by scientists, including many who say there is no definitive evidence to back it up. But the once controversial theory has been gaining ground among some intelligence agencies - and the BND is the latest to entertain the theory. In January, the US CIA said the coronavirus was "more likely" to have leaked from a lab than to have come from animals.

all 38 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Jimius@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 hours ago

Lab leaks/accidents are fairly common. This didn't require some malicious intent or a "perfect storm" of events to occur. There are like 1 or 2 every year, that we know of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents

A study investigated and saw the following from 2000 to 2021 (https://www.chathamhouse.org/laboratory-accidents-and-biocontainment-breaches/scale-problem-today):

"... identified laboratory-acquired infections in 309 individuals, documented in 94 incident reports covering 51 pathogens of varying degrees of hazard. Some of these infections were fatal, and some resulted in the spread of laboratory workers’ infections to others in the community. In addition, the researchers identified 16 incidents of pathogen escape from biocontainment facilities during the period."

And that's not even including all the smaller incidents which adds up to about a hundred a year.

So a lab leak is not only plausible, it's very likely. It requires no malice or conspiracy. And Wuhan actually has a lab that was studying the COVID virus. The communist party however has already covered up, so actual evidence is hard to get.

[–] afronaut@slrpnk.net 2 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

We’re supposed to trust spies working for nation-states that support Israel?

[–] Inucune@lemmy.world 11 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Not every news article and decision on the world revolves around Israel and/or Gaza.

[–] afronaut@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

My point is we shouldn’t be trusting spy agencies working on behalf of nation states at all, which includes pushing geopolitical narratives with the aim of Western supremacy.

“The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.” -1984

[–] Inucune@lemmy.world -1 points 54 minutes ago

Bot/shill.

[–] Coding4Fun@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Although I think the support to Israel (which I am against too) does not play a role in the sake of this argument, I agree with you: it independent scientists couldn't find scientific evidences to support that, spies are for sure not reliable.

[–] afronaut@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Okay, thank you for getting that. In retrospect, I can see how my comment might be perceived as potentially antisemitic but, I’m coming from an anti-imperialist perspective. And, the West is going to keep flooding us with anti-East and anti-Middle East propaganda.

So, to me, Germany’s support of Israel and their demonization of China is one and the same.

[–] wurzelgummidge@lemmy.ml 27 points 14 hours ago

But the once controversial theory has been gaining ground among some intelligence agencies

ie someone at the CIA who wont put their name to it, and a couple of corporate owned German newspapers who they fed it to

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 31 points 17 hours ago

It doesn't matter where it came from! It doesn't change the fact that the government and corporations left us die, then they picked over our carcasses.

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 22 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

They keep "believing" that's what happened because they have not presented any concrete evidence that can be used to get rid of that qualifier.

[–] wittycomputer@feddit.org 13 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Remember when hinting at this would get you banned from Youtube? Good times

[–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

You can't even say dead or killed or rape on youtube.

[–] wisely@feddit.org 2 points 4 hours ago

Yeah makes me not want to watch anything on there. Wife was watching some true crime and I was so confused on why they kept saying essay (SA) and grape.

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 9 points 18 hours ago

BBC

Go back to sleep, this is just repeat cope for failing to handle a pandemic and shifting the blame to another country.

[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 9 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

"Germany’s foreign intelligence" LOL
And who wouldn't trust the BBC mouthpiece?

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 11 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: misinformation

What, we’re supposed to remove UK state-affiliated media articles about German state intelligence assessments?

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 17 hours ago

They are so well trained that even when their own governments retroactively admit they lied, they will not believe it and still say lab leak is a conspiracy theory.

[–] sittinonatoilet@sopuli.xyz 3 points 20 hours ago

Two German newspapers say they have uncovered details of an assessment carried out by spy agency BND in 2020 but never published.

But the once controversial theory has been gaining ground among some intelligence agencies - and the BND is the latest to entertain the theory.

[–] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 1 points 19 hours ago (3 children)

I really don't think it's that hard to believe that some postdoc in Wuhan screwed up and let it loose accidentally.

[–] wurzelgummidge@lemmy.ml 13 points 14 hours ago

But it is even easier to believe that the CIA and their toady media are lying again

[–] cynar@lemmy.world 13 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

The complication is the double jump.

In the early days of COVID, there were 2 strains spreading. One of those fizzled out and disappeared after a few weeks. Genetically, they seemed to be independent jumps. A single mistake wouldn't account for this.

It's also worth noting that the first known infected all spent time in Wuhan wildlife market. They got fairly good tracking from mobile phones, even if the direct evidence was destroyed by the containment/cleaning effort.

Basically, the surrounding evidence doesn't fit an accidental leak (2 jumps). It doesn't really fit an intentional release (very geographically focused). It is consistent with it jumping from a sustained infection pool in the market. (Multiple jumps from the same small area at different times).

[–] Jimius@lemmy.ml -2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

They got fairly good tracking from mobile phones

They being China's communis party who in no way, shape or form are willing to participate in any investigation that could potentially place the origin of COVID within China's borders.

[–] cynar@lemmy.world 1 points 54 minutes ago

They did eventually participate. While their initial behaviour wasn't the best, I also understand why they dragged their feet. There was a definite witch hunt going on, for someone to blame. Once that calmed down, they did actually help with investigating it.

[–] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

That seems like a reasonable challenge to the lab leak hypothesis, but I have to defer to my wife on it. She has a relevant background in microbiology, medicinal chemistry, and pharmacology and says that something about the structure of the viruses suggests convincingly that at least one of the COVID variants was of man-made origin. She's also been working in labs for almost twenty years and has seen too many accidents and near-misses. As a lay person, that explanation makes enough sense to me to find the lab leak hypothesis plausible. Also, I'm not going to disagree with a well-published scientist who is also my wife.

[–] cynar@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

Ultimately, it's of mostly academic interest. Where do we need to tighten down on things to avoid a repeat incident. The best answer would be "Both".

Also, do you have a link to any papers talking about the man-made origin theory? I've not checked in a while, but last time I looked it sent me down a lot of rabbit holes, with nothing ultimately backing it up.

[–] pennomi@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

Plausibility is not evidence, however. I think it’s dangerous to try to place blame on somebody for nothing more than a maybe.

[–] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 2 points 16 hours ago

At least the lab leak hypothesis isn't as sinophobic as the "wet market" one.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 1 points 20 hours ago

The SARS-CoV-2 gain of function research was going on under Fauci’s watch.

Jeffrey Sachs: