this post was submitted on 10 Mar 2025

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-32

A Carney in charge of the circus (noraloreto.substack.com)

submitted 3 weeks ago by theacharnian@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

29 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The reality is that the next federal election will not save us, and regardless of what you think of my writing, you certainly know this deep down. Even a Carney reprieve is unlikely to stave off an even more rabid Conservative party in the next election after this one. But if we aren’t clear-eyed about what is happening, then we sure as hell cannot see where we’re going. And to have a banker, a CEO’s man in the office of Prime Minister, it is going to bring with it a world of challenges that near certainly will pave the road for someone worse than Poilievre.

all 30 comments

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[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 26 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

The anti-Carney bullshit has started. They're afraid. Good.

[–] UnderFreyja@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

I mean yeah they (the conservatives) are afraid but Nora Loreto is a leftist activist. If anything, this is more inline with the left's anti Harris movement than the CP trying to do some damage control.

[–] tleb@lemmy.ca 13 points 3 weeks ago

She specifically writes that it's no different between the Liberals and Conservatives, and goes further to say Carney would pave the road for someone worse than PP. That's just straight up delusional.

[–] Thepotholeman@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 weeks ago

They need to hear about perfect, the enemy of good

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 weeks ago

Only, thankfully, in Canada we don't have a stupid two-party system that forces people to make impossible choices. In Canada such a framing would only apply to the ridings swinging between L and C. But other than that, we're a pluralistic democracy and I see no reason why left wing critiques of the center should be shouted down.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Six of one half dozen of the other.

Spreading anti-Carney bullshit helps no one but the Conservatives.

[+] theacharnian@lemmy.ca -6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What a bad faith thought-stopping thing to say. Check my post history, I'm not here to shill for whatever.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

And yet... the end result is the same.

The Harris supports genocide crowd in the US helped elect a fascist dictator who whole throatedly supports the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Do you think that electing a career politician who has never had a real job and who says nothing but I'm going to magically fix everything and I'm not Justin Trudeau who is going to cut taxes on the wealthy, cut services to everyone else to pay for it, run up the deficit and the debt, then retire to a fat lobbyist job when they are defeated in the next election is going to help your cause? Naivity will help elect a Trump wannabe in Canada, embolden the anti-rights christofascists, and enable the racists who support them.

If you're campaigning against the Liberals you are campaigning for the Conservatives.

You may not think you're shilling but I have news for you.

[–] koncertejo@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Some of the best advancements in Canadian social programs have been spearheaded by the NDP, pulling the Liberals to the left. The NDP have, on more than one occasion, held the balance of power and used it to support Liberal minority governments. Pulling support away from Carney in a leftist direction is in no way equivalent to what happened in the most recent American election. We don't live in a two party system, and I'd very much like to see it kept that way lest we become more like the Americans in yet another way.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

I voted NDP in the provincial election. The Liberals and the NDP together got 320,000 more votes than the Conservatives. If you include the Greens and all the right to extreme right parties left won.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

You're fighting shadows buddy. Not only that, you're projecting on the Canadian system an American political strategy, which is just silly, because the game is entirely different. My riding is a tossup between the Liberals and the NDP. The Conservatives are barely fourth. Flipping it to the NDP, does nothing for the Conservatives: if you haven't noticed, we've had an NDP-supported minority government for 3 and a half years. Were I in a Conservative tossup riding, I'd vote and advocate for ABC hands down. But don't you fucking dare barf crap like "if you’re campaigning against the Liberals you are campaigning for the Conservatives" at me. This is Canada, not some fucking swing state.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R59JmC0u63I

It's the same fucking playbook. Sky high promises with no plans. I'm not the other guy. Grievance. Populism.

Wake the fuck up. The christofascists are on the rise around the world. Canada isn't some special snow flake that's immune to their bullshit.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

You keep talking to me as if I'm campaigning for PP. You keep fighting shadows and not understanding what I'm telling you. This is Canada, we do not have the US two party system. We don't have a binary choice. We have a multi-party democracy.

EDIT: toned down the all-caps. Sheesh man.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

In the Ontario election the NDP and Liberals got 320,000 more votes than the Conservatives. Add the Greens and all the right to extreme right parties and the left still won. The PCs have an 83 seat majority in the provincial legislature. There is only one party that can beat the Conservatives at the national level. Spreading anti-Carney bullshit, the SAME MESSAGE THE CONSERVATIVES ARE SPREADING, IS campaigning for the Conservatives whether you're capable of seeing it or not.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Yes, because they won the conservative toss up seats and the Ontario Liberals and Ontario NDP could not bring themselves to cooperate. If you are arguing for strategic ABC voting, riding by riding, I'm right there with you bud. But that's not what you're arguing for. You're arguing for everyone to fall in line and vote Liberal, and not criticize Dear Leader, in some kind of pointless, nonsensical copy of the American "Blue No Matter Who" strategy. And if you think you're going to be able to bully non-Conservative voters to fall in line behind the Liberals no matter the local context, ben, bonne chance...

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

No, I'm arguing for not amplifying Conservative taking points. Campaign FOR your candidate, not against another non-Conservative candidate.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Conservative talking points? I have no idea what you're talking about.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

https://lemmy.world/post/26620261

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Loreto is saying that there is no material difference between the LPC and the CPC. The conservatives absolutely say they are different.

Ultimately though, here is what Loreto is actually saying:

The only real decision, then, isn’t whether or not to support the Liberals, but how you can use your energy and limited time to make something better, build something more powerful, that can force the Carneys of the world to make better decisions.

Bad faith, bad also kinda garbage, interpretation: "she's saying don't vote and that it doesn't matter, she's dampening the vote".

Good faith, useful, interpretation: "vote how you will, but know that if you want real change about real problems it will take more than just voting".

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

"Harris supported genocide in Gaza" helped elect a fascist dictator wannabe who has whole throatedly supported the ethnic cleansing of Gaza so that he can build a billionaire's paradise resort.

But by all means, continue.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Aaaaand you circled back to a US political strategy that I've been arguing is not applicable to Canada. This is now a loop.

[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Same fucking playbook.

https://youtu.be/R59JmC0u63I

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 weeks ago

This is trying to pretend that Carney, and therefore Liberal Party, is to the right of CPC. PP saying that we need to answer hardships from trade war with tax cuts for oligarchs, disqualifies him and party from consideration.

[–] Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 weeks ago

Oh substack, the platform that allow Nazis and such.

[–] Kichae@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Carney has a reputation for being a Keynesian, as far as I know, which means we should hope to see a new wave of federal investment in infrastructure and a topping up of social programs. The wave of painting him as "every CEO's best buddy" seems really weird in that context, because the CEO's mantra since Regan has been "austerity and tax cuts".

Like, yes, he's not going to overthrow the system, but maybe Loretto should spend more time talking smack about the NDP's choices in the last eight years rather than complaining that the party of the system isn't radical enough to upend it.

I'm so tired of the leftist obsession with the Liberals, and how our constant attempts to be "right" do more to empower the far right at the expense of the centre than they do to bolster the left in any meaningful way.

It's like the whole movement is built on being a wet blanket.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 weeks ago

My understanding is that Carney is a pragmatist, rather than a Keynesian per se, so he's not shied away from using Keynesian economics in times of crisis. I think he self-described himself like that in his first post-election speech. So, I would think that if the trade war with the US becomes a crisis, a Carney cabinet would not shy away from government stimulus. But that's not to say that in "regular times" he would do not operate as a run-of-the-mill neoliberal.

[–] kbal@fedia.io 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Carney will conventionally do the most conventional thing that can be justified by conventional economics, as is his passion. It will not solve our problems. Neither will it lead to an "even more rabid" future Conservative party, if he somehow does keep them out of power this time. The party and the people will have seen rabid populist wreck-everything politics fail to win an election in Canada and bring the USA to ruin. They are likely to want to try something else.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago

It will not solve our problems.

Well, yea, I mean that's the whole point of the article.

Now one might agree or disagree with the claim of an "even more rabid conservative party", but recent experience kind of validates that, right? Biden was a parenthesis in between two fascist waves, and similarly Draghi (someone exceptionally similar to Carney) was a parenthesis between the 5SM and Meloni. Elsewhere in Europe, too, centrists like Macron or Starmer of Scholz have not addressed the underlying issues that bolster the far right and seem to just be only helping to move the Overton Window so that they end up being "the left".

[–] koncertejo@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 weeks ago

Finally some leftist critique of what's been going on with the Liberal party lately. I feel like everyone got so swept up in the fervour of "oh my god, the Conservatives might not win a landslide this election, this is a miracle!" that they forgot that electing someone further to the right of Trudeau in an already centrist party is no win for leftists.