Fascism is un-American : memes

[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 73 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Never forget, the fruit of the tree of capitalism is fascism.

Capitalism unrestrained and left to do its thing, as it has, always leads to fascism. Fascism is the takeover of the state by the capitalists.

This is why fascism is blooming all over the western world. The global capitalist economy is simply in full bloom sitting on entirely captured nation states and fruiting.

The fruit being concentration camps, war, poverty, and scapegoating. Anything to blame literally anyone and everything else for all the inhuman malice the capitalists are doing to attempt to satiate their unquenchable greed.

If anyone still cares about maybe not ending the world for humanity, the capital markets must be destroyed, and speculative investment by passive robber barons not actively participating in laboring to produce products and services must be outlawed. But don't worry, we'll fade into the oblivion of greed made climate change out of cowardice. We'll probably be grateful to die to that after the Fascists have had their fun.

[–] Wrrzag@lemmy.ml 10 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Fascism is the takeover of the state by the capitalists.

What. Capitalism is already the takeover of the state by capitalists. The state apparatus is just the means by which the dominant class exerts its power.

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[–] Hazefugger@sopuli.xyz 2 points 6 days ago

I get the frustration with unrestrained capitalism and the real harm it can do—wealth concentration, exploitation, and rampant inequality are major issues that can breed extremist movements. However, to claim fascism is an inevitable “fruit” of capitalism ignores a whole host of other historical, cultural, and political factors that shape authoritarian regimes. There are plenty of capitalist societies that have never slipped into fascism because democratic institutions, social safety nets, and regulations acted as guardrails.

It’s also important to remember that while corporations can capture political systems, it takes more than greed to sustain a fascist state—there’s often a strong dose of nationalism, militarism, and scapegoating of minorities involved. Lumping all of these under “capitalism leads directly to concentration camps” oversimplifies a complex issue. Yes, we should criticize harmful capitalist excesses, but we need to be precise in how we analyze the broader political environment that actually fosters fascist ideologies.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 27 points 6 days ago (1 children)

So the thing is classical liberals were (and are) capable of a lot of damage without Fascism. Fascism is a specific ideology. Not the suffering people are capable of creating. It's important to understand that your normal democracy is perfectly capable of creating mass suffering.

[–] jdeath@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago

i got a lot of downvotes last time i said it, but the definition of fascism is just "stuff i don’t like" right?

/s

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 41 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

USA 1941:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

The German Nazis loved the whole salute to the flag thingy.

Also Henry Ford - The International Jew
Also American Eugenics Society

[–] AeonFelis@lemmy.world 25 points 6 days ago

Hot take: forcing children to pledge allegiance should be more concerning than the exact posture they are ordered to make while doing so.

[–] nieminen@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Didn't they quickly stop this after it became the Nazis favorite thing?

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

They only changed it in 1942, which is 9 years after Hitler rose to power and 3 years before his reign ended.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It

When the United States entered WWII, the future head of the CIA, Allen Dulles, bemoaned that his country was fighting the wrong enemy. The Nazis, as he explained, were pro-capitalist Aryan Christians, whereas the true enemy was godless communism and its resolute anti-capitalism. After all, the U.S. had, only some 20 years prior, been part of a massive military intervention in the U.S.S.R., when fourteen capitalist countries sought—in the words of Winston Churchill—to “strangle the Bolshevik baby in its crib.” Dulles understood, like many of his colleagues in the U.S. government, that what would later become known as the Cold War was actually the old war, as Michael Parenti has convincingly argued: the one they had been fighting against communism since its inception.

[–] stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 6 days ago (2 children)

when I think of fascism I first think of America, then Nazi Germany

Not that Nazi Germany wasn't far worse but America is a right now thing, not an 80 years ago thing.

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 4 points 5 days ago

Madison Square Garden 1939

[–] Thebigguy@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

For me it’s Germany Italy Spain USA Portugal

[–] stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Germany and Italy are making good progress to make it back onto the list

[–] Thebigguy@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 days ago

Id say Italy had a Donald Trump 15 years ago.

[–] unfnknblvbl@beehaw.org 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yes I know my enemies. They're the teachers that taught me to fight me. Compromise. Conformity. Assimilation. Submission. Ignorance. Hypocrisy. Brutality. The Elite... all of which are American dreams...

[–] SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

All of which are American dreams...

[–] MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 days ago

All of which

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 17 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You left off Hitler being impressed by Henry Ford.

[–] stardust@lemmy.ca 15 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Being very impressed by US segregation laws too.

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 days ago

The nazi's eugenics programs were copy-pasted from California's even, they were explicit about that.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

And US scientific racism too

[–] sleeplessone@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 days ago (3 children)

None of that is fascism. It's just run of the mill liberalism.

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 20 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Anyone downvoting this, should be able to explain why what the the US and European powers did to Africa, Asia, and the americas during the 1700-1900s, was any better or fundamentally different than what fascist formulations from 1920-1945 did. And those atrocities were all done using a far more stable form of government: bourgeois parliamentarism / liberal democracy.

People really need to read Losurdo's - Liberalism, a counter-history. Liberals invented the slave trade, and the victorian holocausts. The only difference between them and the fascists, are that they're far better at colonialism and genocide than the fascists were.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

I keep trying to tell people classical liberals were bastards. There's this perception that just because we can vote that means we can't be the bad guys. It's an ideological catechism that actually fits with the above picture. If Fascism is just whenever mass suffering and death is perpetrated but also World War 2 non voting systems run by strong men then it gives the modern person living in a democracy permission to stop paying attention. After all they can vote and their guy would never.

We need to get this through people's heads, stop putting flashy words on human rights violations and start holding leaders accountable. Because a culture of not being accountable is how you get actual Fascism.

[–] zqps@sh.itjust.works 6 points 6 days ago (2 children)

While not exclusive to it, they are elements of fascism.

It's funny that we have all these lists and essays and books on how fascist ideology and policy is a confluence of many such elements, yet people still act as tough "is this person/party/state fascist?" is a simple yes or no question with no gray area.

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

There's a joke that if you ask 10 people to define fascism, you'll get 10 different answers.

It's an imprecise term whose definition changes with every author who makes a try of it. Even the more popular lists of traits like Eco's or Paxton's have a lot of issues and contradictions which ppl have pointed out.

Any posts that even mention fascism always devolve into ppl trying and failing to agree on its definition, the point of this deflective practice enabling ppl to uphold their own liberal democracies as being sacred and less genocidal.

[–] zqps@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It's not quite that ambiguous. I find that when you're willing to engage with fascist rhetoric and the underlying worldview, you can see the patterns emerge that these scholars have pointed out.

I absolutely agree that (neo)liberal western societies usually only engage with it in order to isolate differences to feel better about themselves. That was my whole point actually. If you understand it's possible that a society or movement partially but not entirely meets the criteria for fascism, that's an actual starting point for a conversation to counteract it. Rather than doing the fig leaf thing from above and say "see we're technically not fascist" as an excuse to shut down that exact conversation.

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[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 6 days ago

Same difference, just one has a smile and bright colors.

[–] agent_nycto@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago (4 children)

I feel like it's unamerican in regards to the values our country espouses, even though it completely and utterly fails to uphold them.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

"American values" are just a smokescreen, they aren't failed, more they serve their purpose of obfuscation well.

[–] agent_nycto@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Nah man, Americans have values. Freedom, perseverance, independence, self expression. It's just that we have utterly failed to uphold those values in our actions. Even in the beginning, talking about slavery being terrible but still allowing it for political reasons right at the founding.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (5 children)

Those values only really served as a way for the ruling class that founded America to justify itself. They weren't genuine.

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[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 days ago

The purpose of a system is what it does

[–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 7 points 6 days ago (3 children)

"Espouses but fails to uphold" sounds more like negligence to me. Negligence would be allowing fascism through inaction (like democrat administration). But the US does far worse than that (funding genocide and propping up fascism elsewhere)

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[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

All men are created equal

IS SLAVE STATE

Always has been

[–] agent_nycto@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

Yeah dawg that's my point. We have the ideal of equality but also failed to actually follow through with it.

[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 8 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Feels like imperializem merits to be further down the line, if not the last panel.

But yes, good memetics in this meme, gg.

[–] taanegl@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

Woa, hey now. Too close. I think I'm going to have to back up a truckload of apologia. BEEP-BEEP-BEEP-BEEP - is it there? Is it up to the line? Good.

Unloads why republics should be ethnically pure, but spun in a way that vaguely unsharps the truths jagged edge, while pining for a time gone by and fear mongering to whatever would be mob that could dawn balaclavas and facemasks to terrorize local neighborhoods with bigoted chants and flags in hand.

I say no, fascist, back to hell with you - and stay there. That is your home, that is where you should stay, forever and ever and ever - and if for some reason they should be let back out, it's up to the entirety of the human species to slap them straight back down to the depths that they came from.

Give me liberty, or give me dead fascists - because the latter has a tendency to produce the former.

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