this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2024
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It's a bit shocking to me when I see people online putting 9/11 conspiracies in the same box as "MAGA" conspiracies (for lack of a better term, sorry).

For reference, I was 24 in 2001 living in central NJ. Even without social media or fake news websites or what cable news has become today, I have vivid memories of people having the firm belief that there was something up with the attack on 9/11. Was this just my social circle?

Jet fuel melting steel beams was one of the more fringe and unfounded (and quickly debunked) ideas but the rest of everything on that day was questionable. Tower seven falling, the missing plane debris at the pentagon and central PA, the military / president not responding to known threats, if a person with limited flight time could hit a tower, the fact that Bush attacked a country that had nothing to do with the event, and so much more are still, I thought, reasonable questions - especially when looked at together.

This is not about rehashing each theory. Or maybe it is? Have I missed that everything has been debunked?

I mean, I still believe 9/11 was an inside job or at least high level officials, including Bush, were aware it was going to happen and did nothing to stop it. I thought this was still a common opinion of most or many Americans over the age of forty.

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[–] shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

You aren't imagining things. People got caught up in the weird details, the fact that the plane meant for the white house just happened to not reach its destination (even though George W. Bush who was president at the time was in Florida anyways), the supposed untrustworthiness of the US government (staging terrorist attacks to garner support for things wasn't even a new feature among American agencies, though all confirmed proposals had been rejected by the president), the fact this resembles something out of Nero Caesar's playbook (which would make the whole thing kind of well-established at this point), and the fact that Osama Bin Laden's response message to Americans was "released" just before the next election (almost like they were trying to then garner support for an election).

Seek out reasons to conspiracy-theorize though and you will find an Achilles Heel one out of ten times, and people here conjure them at a megafactory's pace. Raising an eyebrow towards the conspiracy theorists is the fact the circumstances from the Middle Eastern perspective that led to the attack though, as well as the fact there even was direct acknowledgement by Osama Bin Laden and later their hosts in Pakistan at all, make it so that, even if it had been American agents who carried it out, it still might as well have been carried out by Osama Bin Laden by some form of proxy/tribute (in other words, his nation made it impossible to say they hadn't looked forward to overseeing it, and from a war standpoint it would have been an act of war in a way either way, plus there are the witness accounts of the plane passengers, like we should ignore those), and it skews matters that both planes and buildings in New York City were not built to code (absolutely every liberty was taken even considering the more lenient building code at the time, for example the stairs were like motel stairs and the anti-fire system was inadequate), which throws a wrench into discussions of architectural physics (of note, I consider it odd people use physics to determine the suspects, that's more of something that merely makes one wonder the "how" about something we all know physically happened).

Rule of thumb, when people go about this, I would think one should think in terms of a court of law. You're a prosecutor making a case against or in favor or a suspect. Are you going to say "look at the physics of something that clearly happened, that doesn't look right" or "but Emperor Nero did it" or "the person I'm accusing has a track record" or "some things seem awfully convenient"? Maybe you would, but that's you, and testimony would become your nightmare. Also note that I'm sure nobody is saying agnosticism isn't completely possible, even though people would think "alright, either you think they did this or that person did it".

[–] Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I certainly heard a lot of conspiracy theories at the time, but I didn't know anyone who believed them. But I don't and didn't really hang out with the type of people that believe stuff like that in general. My friends and family are generally empirical evidence people, logical thinkers rather than emotional.

[–] oxjox@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'd be curious to know how some of your friends and family responded to the shot taken at Trump's ear.

[–] Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I would assume reasonably and reservedly, rather than jumping the gun. It's certainly how I responded. Not sure what you really mean to ask though.

If you mean about conspiracy theories, I can pretty much assure they waited to see what was actually the case rather than believe the first thing they heard.

[–] Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

There are a few conspiracy theories remember hearing a lot about (aside from steel fuel melting jet beams and tower 7) that I never quite followed up on. If you know of evidence debunking any these please share. I DO NOT BELIEVE THESE THEORIES MYSELF, THESE ARE JUST ONES THAT PEOPEL I KNOW HAVE BEEN SPOUTING OFF OVER THE YEARS.

  1. CIA confiscating Security cam footage from a gas state across the street from the Pentagon which shows an American cruise missile hitting it instead of an airplane.

  2. No plane debris found at the Pentagon

  3. That entire wing of the Pentagon which was hit was "conveniently" closed for renovations

  4. No plane debris at the crash site in PA, which is said to have went down because the pilots bravely crashed on purpose to thwart the terrorist plans

  5. The owners of the twin towers updated huge insurance policies the day(s) leading up to 9/11.

[–] Corno@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

What's the point of the government hijacking three airliners but then deciding to use a cruise missile on the Pentagon? The explosive dynamics of a cruise missile and a giant hollow tube which carries people are different and both look nothing alike.

There was debris.

Luck.

Flight 93 left wreckage when it crashed. The FDR and CVR were located around 20 feet/6 meters underground. The reason the parts are small is because the plane was put into a nose dive at a steep angle and crashed with a very high amount of force.

Coincidence. It's a building which would be one of the first targets for a major terrorist attack.

[–] oxjox@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The jet fuel burning steal beams is an interesting one. I remember, perhaps weeks after the event, if not days, scientists being interviewed on national news explaining the science about this and being very clear that this was certainly plausible - it wasn't just the jet fuel but the surrounding materials and chimney like effect of the building which increased the fire's temperature (don't quote me on these details).

How it became the most prominent conspiracy theory is wild to me. Not dissimilar from a random xenophobic Facebook post about illegal immigrants eat pets becoming a major talking point during a presidential debate. Or how it was verified that the 2020 election was the most secure in our nation's history yet more than half of Americans believe voter fraud is a serious threat.

As you've pointed out, that's just a fraction of the "coincidences" surrounding this event. Individually, I could understand they'd be forgotten or swept under the rug but as a whole, it's just a lot of stuff to swallow if you want to believe the "official" report. At the same time, I acknowledge that for this many "coincidences" to be planned out would probably be impossible to cover up.

In comparison, consider what's know and still covered up about the JFK assassination. This is relatively small potatoes in scale compared to 9/11.

[–] palordrolap@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago

How it became the most prominent conspiracy theory is wild to me.

Every word in "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" is a single syllable. Very easy to rattle around in an empty head. I mean, heck, it's still rattling around in mine...

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works -2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

not at all your imagination, most of the stuff you listed is established fact.

A lot of people don't believe in "conspiracies" unless they already "know" that the conspiracy is true, in which case they believe it was never a "conspiracy", even though something like 9/11 was obviously a secret plan that a small group plotted to cause harm.

Aren't we lucky to be living in the age of human history in which governments are good and honest? Not like those old, backwards governments in history books who would dress up their soldiers as the enemy's and order them to do something heinous.

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