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This is how taxation should work in the U.S. if we were sane:
The end.
The IRS should be calculating what we owe. We shouldn't be doing that ourselves or hiring people to do it for us. Maybe we could finally get the wealthy to pay their fair share.
The IRS should be calculating what we owe.
They do. That's why you occasionally get bills saying "hey you miscalculated by 70 bucks." They already do the work, they just still make us do it too for.... Reasons.
Reasons
AKA Intuit lobbyists
Once for a whole year I would get a letter saying "You underpaid by $30, plz pay." So I would pay. Then I would get a letter saying "You overpaid by $30, here is check." So I would cash it. Then I would get a letter saying "You underpaid by $30, plz pay..." There were six or seven of those exchanges. I didn't cash the last check and the letters stopped coming. 🤷♂️
Or dispute it . This is how it's done almost everywhere else but the tax lobby have a best interest in this not working this way.
Or....you know bring back home ec classes that teach kids how to survive in the world instead of assuming parents will be able to do it
Sure, bring back home ec classes like that regardless, but that should also have no bearing on a saner taxation system. The one we have is ludicrous.
As an example of how this could work based on how it does where I live;
No muss, no fuss. If you've got an interest in a trust or own a company then it gets a bit more complicated and you might need an accountant to file for you, but for 95% of people it's free, happens automatically, and they aren't stuck with a big bill at the end of the year
yup. we should all be recieving a 2040x with the left hand side filled out already and we can optionally make the changes in the right hand side if we think its wrong.
Agree. Then TurboTax and other tax preparers wouldn't be able to rip us off to the tune of billions of $ too.
A bill for what? How do they know what to bill you for if you don't tell them where and how you made and spent your money?
All info on the tax forms you use for your taxes could just be sent to the government instead, and they can calculate your taxes. That is how it works in most other countries.
Are you saying your taxes aren't taken out of your paychecks? Because they've always been taken out of mine. Seems like it's pretty easy for them to bill you based on that. And they can send the bill to whatever address is on your W-2.
I mean I'm not a W2 employee so no.
But when I was, this process typically only took about 15 minutes where you import the info from your tax form you're provided by your employer and they ask additional questions that they don't have answers to like what kind of healthcare you received or if you gained any children/dependents.
Even if it only took you 15 minutes, and it sure takes a lot of people who get W-2s a lot more than 15 minutes... that's 15 minutes too long. Why should you have to do the government's job for it?
and it sure takes a lot of people who get W-2s a lot more than 15 minutes...
To do what, exactly?
that's 15 minutes too long. Why should you have to do the government's job for it?
I don't know how else you expect them to get the relevant information.
The government should already have a record of how much you've been paid every year. Why do they not have that record in your case? Do you not declare your income in whatever job you have?
The government should already have a record of how much you've been paid every year.
And where would they get that information?
Do you not declare your income in whatever job you have?
I already told you I don't have a job. I'm self-employed.
Oh well. Guess you don't get to benefit from something everyone who isn't self-employed should benefit from.
Nah, let's leave the tax code impossibly complicated and easy for rich people to game on behalf of the handful of self-employed people in this country.
Tell you what, you keep doing your 15-minute taxes and the rest of us won't have to waste those 15 minutes. How's that?
You keep complaining instead of answering my question.
No. I answered your question. They bill you based on your W-2. Except for the handful of self-employed people like yourself who will have to do it the hard way.
I answered your question. They bill you based on your W-2
Why does it take you "a lot more than 15 minutes" to enter your income?
Except for the handful of self-employed people like yourself
You mean 10M Americans?
Why does it take a lot more than 15 minutes? I'll let this 30-page document from the IRS explain. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p501.pdf
And the U.S. population is 339.1 million, so you expect the tax code to revolve around less than 1% of taxpayers.
That was a Socratic question. I know the answer. It's because they need information they don't have to properly assess your taxes.
you expect the tax code to revolve around less than 1% of taxpayers.
I don't expect it to "revolve around" anyone. You were the one who brought my personal taxes into question.
It’s because they need information they don’t have to properly assess your taxes.
What information?
And how is it that many other countries are able to accomplish what I'm talking about?
What information?
The information you give them when you complete your taxes. Have you not paid taxes before?
And how is it that many other countries are able to accomplish what I'm talking about?
I've no idea, that's a good question for someone who lives in those places.
I like how you've gone from 'we can't possibly do this' to 'other countries do it, but I don't know how, so we can't possibly do this.'
Well when you literally just fabricate things that I've said, it can be very easy to confuse yourself.
Okay, if you weren't saying this wasn't doable, what on Earth was your point?
I just said I don't know how they do it so I can't comment on it. I can only comment on the American tax system as an American taxpayer.
Yes, I know, you suggested that it couldn't be done in the U.S. but your only answer as to why it can't be done in the in the U.S. when it can be done in other countries is "I don't know how it works there," which is a cop-out. Your ignorance of how it works in other countries doesn't mean it can't work in the U.S.
you suggested that it couldn't be done in the U.S.
Nope, you're just making shit up again.
You: "A bill for what? How do they know what to bill you for if you don’t tell them where and how you made and spent your money?"
Me: Here is a link to show you how other countries do it.
You: "I just said I don’t know how they do it so I can’t comment on it. I can only comment on the American tax system as an American taxpayer."
If that is not implying that it can't be done in the U.S., what did you mean? You apparently didn't even bother to look at the link to find out how it could be done.
Sorry I missed your link. The US already has that system. It's listed under "Similar systems" in your link. That's why you have "tax refunds", because they typically overestimate what you owe and then give you the difference back in the following year. The only time you have to declare your income is when you are self-employed. It sounds like you are not very familiar with the US tax system.
Have you ever looked at your paycheck? It's usually the default unless you choose to opt out of it.
But that's only for income and not the other information I previously listed.
You're obviously conflating "I don't know how they do it" with "it can't be done".
FreeTaxUSA.com is free for most types of filings and very inexpensive for complex filings. If you don't qualify for the new IRS program, the next best thing is definitely going to be FreeTaxUSA.
Agreed, I use them and paid $15 for state filing only. There are other services if you want extra but they've been my go to for a couple years now
Used them for the first time this year and it was a great experience. Still can't figure out what add-on made it not work in my desktop Firefox but that's minor.
Dear United States, nice to see you finally catching on to what we've been doing since 1999.
Love,
Sweden
Norway here, I've been working since 1995 and I can't ever recall having to "do my taxes".
Sweden: has sane taxation system US: how are we supposed to get middlemen in there to profit off the populace? No no, this won't work.
Just out of interest I checked the UK's system called PAYE, it's was fully introduced in 1944. The only people that have to deal with bullshit tax returns are people that are probably going to be making enough money to be able to afford someone to sort it out for them anyway.
They should call it Make American Government Payments Incredibly Easy, or Magpie for short.
Friendly reminder that if your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) is less than $79,000 you can already do "Guided Tax Filing" for free. If your AGI is more than $79k, you can still do your taxes for free, but have to do them completely manually which is generally considered risky if you don't know what you're doing.
Another tip: turbo tax and other tax preparation software charges you money only to file your taxes. You can fill out all of the information on their website for free as long as you don't file, then use all of the numbers they crunch as a guide when you do your own taxes manually. Basically, you know what all of the numbers are supposed to come out to based on what turbo tax calculated, so if you're getting something else when you prepare your own taxes you know there's some mistake in that section that needs to be corrected.
Or use Free Tax USA for completely free federal filing
My comment also applies to state filing, which is not free through Free Tax USA
Their website says state filing is free for people with an AGI of $45,000 or less.
Awesome tip
Tax Hawk is also free for federal returns and has been around for a few years.
I don't remember what but I have tried it and others and there is always a catch. if it can't auto download stuff its relatively pants.