this post was submitted on 07 Apr 2025
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[–] ambitiousslab@lemmy.ml 36 points 11 hours ago (4 children)

I agree with parts about entitlement. The expectation of support and treatment of open source software as if it was proprietary is a real problem.

But, the authour makes a similar mistake - they conflate open source software with source-available (proprietary) software. As an example, I strongly disagree with this part:

When software is open-source, it is open-source, not necessarily free and open-source (FOSS), and even if it is FOSS, it might still have a restrictive licence. The code being available in and of itself does not give you a right to take it, modify it, or redistribute it.

If you replace it with this version, I am happy:

When software is source-available, it is source-available, not necessarily open source or free and open-source (FOSS). The code being distributed under a source available license does not give you a right to take it, modify it, or redistribute it.

I think it's really important that we keep a clear delineation between free/open source software on one side, and source-available (proprietary software) on the other.

A lot of companies are trying to co-opt and blur the meaning of the term so they can say "seeing the source was always the point, none of the other freedoms mattered", in order to sell you proprietary licenses.

Open source gives you the right to take, modify and redistribute it. Source available does not. And that's ok, just please don't blur the terms together.

even if it is FOSS, it might still have a restrictive license

Likewise, this is definitionally untrue. The whole purpose of FOSS is to give you the four freedoms.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

The code being distributed under a source available license does not give you a right to take it, modify it, or redistribute it.

I would add in "automatically" there. Source-available licenses could give you the right to modify it and redistribute it, or it may not. For example, the Unreal Engine is proprietary and covered by a source-available model, and you can redistribute it to other license holders (must accept certain terms and conditions), and even then w/ restrictions. So you can take it, modify it, and redistribute it, but there are a handful of very important asterists there.

Basically, if you don't recognize the license as one of the major ones (Apache, BSD, MIT, (L|A)GPL, etc), then treat it as source-available w/ no rights other than reading it until you actually read and understand the license.

even if it is FOSS, it might still have a restrictive license

Likewise, this is definitionally untrue. The whole purpose of FOSS is to give you the four freedoms.

That depends on your definition of "restriction."

If you use a copyleft license, you could be restricted from using proprietary plugins, since you'd have to release the source of those plugins if a user accesses it in a covered way, and you don't have the right to do that. That sounds like a restriction to me, and it doesn't apply to more permissive licenses like BSD or MIT.

[–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 5 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I once had an argument in another community on here about something very similar. And they told me I was wrong. The mods deleted my posts.

I posted the links and the definition/requirements for FOSS as compared to just open source.

They kept telling me i was talking about open source and not libre.

The links and definitions and requirements I posted:

From Richard Stallman, from the site whose creators developed the rules and requirements for FOSS, GNU.org, and from the itsFOSS site which, indeed, references and links to the first 2.

The definitions also explicitly state the difference and uniqueness of each and compares them to the nonstandard open source (source available) labels.

I unjoined that community and found a less ignorant one.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The mods are definitely wrong, and they shouldn't be deleting posts here. But you could also be wrong, I don't have the original posts to go off of, but I do have this one.

FOSS is not the same as Free Software, it's a combination of Free Software and Open Source software, meaning it applies to both. In long form, it's Free and Open Source Software, meaning it applies to things applying to one or the other, and not necessarily both.

If you mean Free Software (i.e. the FSF/GNU definition), then use that term. If you mean Open Source (i.e. the OSI definition), then use that term. If you're not sure which you mean, but you know you mean one of the two, use the term FOSS. If you just mean the source is available but it doesn't necessarily fit the the Free Software or Open Source definitions, use the term "source available" and leave it at that.

Most FOSS licenses are both Free and Open Source (i.e. they meet the definition of both), but not all. Many Open Source licenses are incompatible w/ Free Software licenses, for example the Apache 2.0 license is incompatible with the (L)GPL < v3 in some cases.

In general:

  • FOSS - preferred when the software is either free software or open source software
  • source-available - preferred when the software is not FOSS, but you do have access
  • proprietary - use for either source-available or non-source-available software
  • Free Software - use when referring to copy-left software (yes, it applies to more, but let's keep things simple)
[–] masterofn001@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I linked GNU's definition of Free Software already.

[–] snowfalldreamland@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Maybe it sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory but with how often people make this "mistake" i really believe it's a deliberate effort to undermine the meaning of open-source

[–] sfxrlz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I think many people fail to wrap their head around the concept since almost everywhere else nothing is really free.

[–] entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 6 hours ago

Yeah, freedom has become vanishingly rare

[–] This2ShallPass@lemmy.world 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Yes, just because the source code is available doesn't mean it is licensed for others to take. Now we have AI tools that have scraped the web for all of its content and won't see the difference between source available, open source , and free and open source. It is possible that those who use AI tools could be unknowingly using code without the license to do so.