They did say saudis bad tho, we should give the same nuance we expect from others. I don't suppose the commenter you're replying to supports Saudi arabia, it's just odd that the nuance they're seemingly willing to grant the saudis wont be given to Russia

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Restored order" is such a bullshit line

[–] VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's basically the same line Russia is using in Ukraine. Just with some added "denazification" buzz words.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, Ukraine has a specific military campaign (the bombardment of Donbas) that he opposes along with the expansion of NATO. He has very clear demands, whatever you think of them.

[–] VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That was initiated by pro-Russian insurgents and has led to lots of death on both sides. It's not like the opposing forces haven't been bombarding either. It's like if England started attacking the North during the US Civil War because they retaliated against the South attacking them, and of course they both speak English. I'm guessing you also believe in the Russian propaganda line about a genocide happening there, even though there's no proof? It was obviously just an excuse for Russia to get more control over Ukrainian territory after their Russian puppet President got ran out of the country.

Putin had denazification as a demand. That's not super clear at all. His clear demands are Ukraine staying out of NATO, which it was already up for agreeing to do, and surrendering territory, which is obviously the one it doesn't want to do, because no country would want to do that. That's the problem one but hopefully they come to something eventually.

It's bizarre to me that most hexbear users are less anti-war than some protestors and TV journalists that live in Russia itself who want their own country to leave. I agree with you guys on so many other stuff, but I can't get behind supporting the aggressor in a war, especially as they're shelling hospitals and apartment buildings.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Donbas secessionists want to leave because the Maidan coup started pushing the country towards Ukrainian ethnonationalism, and eastern Ukraine is very Russian. Russia did back them, but Putin did not fabricate a popular opposition to the Maidan government.

Denazification is a pretty clear objective when the entity that you are seeking to denazify has battalions that are openly and explicitly Nazi as part of their doctrine. Purge those units, prosecute former members, ban Nazi hate crimes (like greasing bullets with pig fat) and ban Nazi symbols like Swastikas and Wolfsangles. It's really not difficult, the US military nearly passes that bar and even the German military does (though it has closeted Nazi cliques).

[–] VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ya but we're not in a war for our very lives. Hopefully they can get around to doing it after the war. Russia also had a Nazi problem with the Wagner group and a growing antisemitism problem but for some reason you can extend critical support to them but not Ukraine?

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

I was talking about Russia demanding it, not Ukraine doing it of their own volition. You are genuinely delusional if you think Ukraine is interested in such a thing. The Azov Battalion formed as a paramilitary circa 2014 to spearhead the aggression on Donbas, and since then became an official part of the military, still a couple years before the invasion, along with a few other explicitly Nazi groups. This, along with lionizing Bandera, pushing holodomor shit, and advancing ethnonationalist policy shows a clear trend. In terms of "state adoption of Nazi shit" Ukraine is easily the world leader and has been for some time, even over much worse and more destructive countries like the US.

Wagner is a PMC organization. There are Nazis in it, but it's not a doctrinally Nazi organization nor is it actually part of the Russian government like Azov is Ukraine. Russia likewise isn't pushing fascist hoaxes or ethnonationalist policies (however much we might both dislike Putin's revanchist rhetoric).