This whole counter offensive insanity is so militarily nonsensical that it had to have been mounted to please the West with a "win" so that they'd stay in the war. Real Chiang Kai Shek committing the best of the KMT army to Shanghai to impress the Westerners energy.

The West is standing on the sidelines, supplying just enough equipment to keep the embers going and judging the ordinary Ukrainians going to their deaths by their hundreds.

Fuck the clowns in charge in Kiev and fuck the Nazi militias obviously. But at this point the men being sent to the front are old men and boys dragged off the street against their will. Sending them to die to appease the West is fucking sick.

[–] LeFantome@programming.dev 19 points 1 year ago (99 children)

This got an upvote?

Are you open to proposing your master plan?

Ukraine has been invaded. Are you suggesting they do not fight back?

NATO is not war. No NATO country has been attacked. Engaging against Russia directly would put NATO at war with a nuclear power. I cannot imagine that this is your plan.

Not just “the West”, but everybody is on the sidelines as far as direct engagement goes. Most countries are assisting Ukraine where they can. Some to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. Most have imposed crippling sanctions. So. “sidelines” is a bit misleading from that perspective.

Even Russia’s allies are “on the sidelines”. You certainly do not see much overt support from China. They have even maintained ( in fact stepped-up ) diplomatic relation with Ukraine.

Or are you trying to imply that the underlying cause of everything here is something other than Russia’s continued invasion? Everybody could truly go back to the sidelines if Russia just left.

The only other path is for Ukraine to win. Are you supporting that or not?

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 60 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Ukraine has plenty of opportunities to win. It could have chosen to chart a more balanced position between the EU and Russia. It could have given the Donbass some independence referenda and just let them go. It could have actually tried to adhere to the numerous Minsk Agreements to deescalate and prevent war. It could have negotiated for peace while the Russians were pulling back after its previously more successful counter offensives.

But each time its leaders ignored the off ramp to peace and pursued delusional maximalist goals, egged on by promises of EU and NATO membership which even Zelensky acknowledged publically were just carrots dangled in front of Ukraine.

Now there's no pathway to any sort of Ukrainian victory and the most realistic scenarios all involve Ukraine permanently giving up Donbas and Crimea. The only difference between the likely outcome now and just giving them a referendum in 2014 is a couple hundred thousand Ukrainian graves.

I'd respect the EU and NATO more if they had actually followed through with their promises to Ukraine instead of this Charlie Brown football bullshit.

[–] bazo@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Give your mother to russians and after that you can propose to give Ukrainian land.

[–] footfaults@hexbear.net 43 points 1 year ago

I have no actual argument so I'll just say Russians are going to rape your mom

smuglord

[–] Zuzak@hexbear.net 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Go out and fight Russia yourself and after that you can propose that Ukrainians should keep being drafted against their will on your behalf, coward.

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago

Libs just love making shit up, do you even know what Russia is demanding?

Go volunteer if you think it's this much of a moral fight.

load more comments (8 replies)

load more comments (94 replies)

load more comments (101 replies)