this post was submitted on 19 Jan 2025
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https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/01/defend-say/

"I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

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[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 32 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Hitler will be defeated in the marketplace of ideas.

[–] mke@programming.dev 5 points 1 day ago

Surely, as he was in reality. I'll be paraphrasing this, thanks.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 18 points 2 days ago

"The Marketplace of Ideas" is such a scam, all that phrase accomplished was getting Bill Nye to debate creationists, who then gained followings because "The TV Box said that the Creationism and Evolution are equal ideas worth debating and considering the merits of!"

Don't let them make you think that Piss belongs on the shelf with Pepsi.

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Chicken and the egg, he would have been defeated in the marketplace of ideas, if he didn't seize power and destroy the marketplace of ideas. If the German population held freedom of expression, equality for all under the law, etc., as sacrosanct, and Hitler wasn't able to manufacture a legal mechanism to seize power, nothing would have happened. But, they were missing that kind of unity, the idea of what a better society should look like and why it's worth defending, so that enough psychopaths organized around Hitler that he was able to enforce his mandates.

Ultimately the question is about whether or not a political paradigm can gain enough traction to have its followers come out on top of everyone else. The prevailing wind of society has to be justice instead of injustice. And not always "domestically", either, war and colonialism take a very similar shape. just as a projection from one region into another. This gets to Chomsky's description of "power structures". A fascist power structure could defeat, or be defeated by, the organization of the people, but it all depends on their collective cultural mindset - strength in numbers, arms, organization, etc. That is why ultimately the fight against fascism is about the necessity of education, and why fascists attack all forms of education.

[–] Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Seize power?
He was given power by Hidenburg to get a working Reichstag coalition to stop the Communists and other far Left groups from gaining ground.

The existing power structures were then very happy to work with him and saw him as a tool until it was clear he was unassailably in power. Then his annexations of Austria and The Sudentenland were massively popular domestically, even with people who didn't like him.

People were too happy to overlook the antisemitism, homo/transphobia, and racism in general (especially against Roma, Sindi, and other travellers as well as Slavs) in return for feeling their nation was strong again.

That said, I think I agree with your overall idea. Just being a "terminally online nitpicker".

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

until it was clear he was unassailably in power

Yes, that part where power was seized.

[–] Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 8 hours ago

Maybe it's just to me that "seized" implies taking something that others are not willing to hand over, rather than giving it without coercion.