Canada

I think a lot of people think trump is good for economy for reasons like stripping away environmental regulations. Sure it might make a company cheaper to operate without regulations but often times it is exponentially more expensive to deal with the damages.

The other thing that I'd add to this is that, post-pandemic, a lot of people have felt the pinch of shifting economic realities. A lot of decisions from years and decades past that have masked the costs neoliberal policies and corporate cost cutting have come home to roost, and it has left people feeli g stressed out and resentful.

They feel their quality of life and standard of living starting to slip, and they see the injustice of the system supporting their bosses, their landlords, and their banks, but not them. And they see who's currently at the wheel.

Because of this, they also grow increasingly resentful towards discussions of people who need help. They feel like no one is there to help them as the world shifts around them, and yet they have smug culture warriors telling them that they're worse than Hiitler for not thinking of people they'll never meet, half a world away.

Trump and Milhouse will not help them, but at least they will not tell them that they are not deserving. And that's more than what they perceive Democrats, the Liberals, or the NDP doing for them.

You're doing amazing work here. Not enough people are trying to make an effort to understand far right voters. You don't have to agree with the policies, but you do still have to make an effort to understand why they appeal to people and makes them want to vote that way.

Liberal parties (Democrats, LPC, etc.) have been ignoring this for far too long and in my opinion, that's why they keep losing. They lose and blame the voters for not seeing the world the way they do, but they don't have any understanding or perspective of what the world looks like through the eyes of these voters. That's why they don't have any appeal and things are just going to continue getting worse as long as they continue ignoring the real issues that affects voters.

(Unless a real alternative party emerges, I suppose....)

Thank you very much for this summary. Sadly I do feel some sort of understanding to a lot of Trump voters that genuinely thought they were making a good decision, and I think your summary reflects why people would feel that way. I 100% disagree with them, but I can understand their frustration and do see a lot of that reflected in Canadian politics as well.

I'm curious about the comment on Singh. As long as I've been following/supporting the NDP, I've always felt like they were more working class and really haven't seen a whole lot of identity politics in their expressions. With the exception of maybe racism stuff, but I feel like given Jagmeet's own (obvious) identity, this would be a central issue to him as a leader and to them as a party. I have seen them express in interviews about concerns for the working class many times otherwise.

Can't disagree with anything you said. You're a hero for watching the Joe Rogan interview, I cannot listen to Trump for more than 5 minutes at a time, it breaks my brain trying to parse what he's actually saying instead of treating it like some sort of Rorshach test.

I will say he gets the vibes. The US economy is doing pretty well. They've done better on inflation than any other OECD country that I'm aware of, their economy is growing, unemployment is low. But… it feels bad. It feels bad for too many people just trying to pay the rent and put food on the table. Is it because too much of that wealth has accrued in the pockets of the wealthy? Maybe, but paying more for a place to live and more for dinner tonight have a visceral reality that talk of housing starts doesn't.

We're in a similar position in Canada. I would actually point to the Daycare program as one of the most significant programs that's helped working class families in years, but I also don't think it matters really, because I don't know how well the LPC ahs captured the "vibes" of it.

You're absolutely correct in your conclusions. I've been trying to spread the same message and get my close friends to see this situation for what it is, and all I get for my efforts is called a libertarian (which I'm not), or be told I'm racist (I live in a blended family and friends group).

The leftist elitists in the USA love to scoff at the close-minded bigotry from the right, and pat themselves on the back about how open minded they are, while being completely closed off to anyone who tries to tell them how they're alienating people, and causing strife with their identity politics.

Identity politics are poison. They seem purposefully engineered to sow division, instead of their stated goal of inclusion. I've tried to talk about this online a few times and gave up after being eviscerated by people parroting agenda points rather than actually engaging in a conversation.

The left, or the Democrats, or whatever you want to call them, have continually alienated huge portions of the population, portions required to win elections and actually change policies, with issues that affect miniscule portions of the population.

I want everyone to be treated equally. I want equality and inclusion. You don't obtain that by telling 60% of the people in the country that their voices don't matter, their opinions don't matter, and their only job is to shut up and listen. Yes, it's wise to listen more than you talk when someone who has experienced something you haven't is sharing their experiences with you. But the overtly hostile fashion in which that message has been spread is offensive, and damaging, and alienating, and we saw the outcome of that last night.

Yeah, I think a lot of the parallels in Canada is that the failure here is with the NDP, not the Liberals or Conservatives. Overall, those two parties haven't changed, but at some point - post Layton - the NDP apparently decided to go down that same identity politics road, while similarly abandoning the general working class. Maybe they felt they just weren't getting enough votes with the latter and there were enough who felt strongly about such social issues, but FFS they could have at least tried harder to support BOTH.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if the reason they've continued to support the Liberals is not so much a fear of z Conservative government, but rather if there's some dirt the Liberals have on NDP leadership to keep them on a leash. Nothing else really explains why they've continued down this path of political suicide.