this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
1743 points (98.4% liked)

News

21850 readers
6477 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The sorry state of streaming residuals shows why SAG and the WGA are striking.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] lemmyman@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I think the latent question here is - how were expectations and/or contracts for writers any different from hourly workers who have never expected royalties?

[–] QHC@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The previous comment did most of the work for you. Writers, actors, crew, and generally everyone involved in the entertainment industry does not have a salary gig like office workers. They aren't working consistently--which has only gotten worse in the streaming era--and thus rely on royalties as part of their total compensation.

So, in summary, they are completely different situations that cannot be directly compared.

[–] lemmyman@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

I don't think I'm ignorant of the gig-work nature of these things - I am, by choice, a contractor, but in a different field (engineering services). But my contracts specify that the deliverables are "works for hire" and that the client owns all IP, and I am not entitled to residuals or royalties or any other income from the work I've done under such contracts.

I just genuinely don't know if writers thought that they should be getting more. And if so, why?Because there are plenty of analogous (i.e. IP-generating) jobs that don't have such arrangements.

[–] StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website 3 points 11 months ago

“Works-for-hire” is exactly the key point here.

This is about who holds the IP. Sometimes, depending on the employer and contract, an engineer will get to share in a patent created in the course of the job. Or might have incentives such as Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) or options.

So it’s not true that the IT folks are exclusively paid salary. Many share in the risk as well as the returns of their firms.

Let’s unpack that.

Yes, there are ‘writers for hire’ in licenced tie-in fiction and comics. These authors get a flat advance BUT they still get royalties based on the number of books or comics sold. That is - base payment and then returns based on success if the product.

Film and television writers are compensated by residuals in addition to salary. The studio owns the IP but the creators have a stake. It’s a risk and return sharing relationship with the studio. That’s the standard arrangement.

How is this different from an ESOP or options as an incentive remuneration?

How would an IT employee feel if a firm licenced the IP and then excluded its value from the calculation of ESOPs and options due, or the dividends on the nonvoting shares issued to employees?

[–] QHC@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

I just genuinely don’t know if writers thought that they should be getting more. And if so, why?

What do you mean by "more", and relative to what? The main complaint from writers are that in recent years the trend has been them all getting paid significantly less. Not just a few percentage points, more like 1-10% of what they used to get.

So, they want to get paid the same as they used to, which is more than currently but not "more" when looked at from a longer time frame.

[–] pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago

It's different with writers, because if their contracts worked like ours did they would have no hope of retiring. So when a fat fish like Suits comes along everyone who has a hand in making it is hoping to swing that either into money or more lucrative work.

That's the way I've come to see it. Actual writers may disagree

[–] whats_a_refoogee@sh.itjust.works -1 points 11 months ago

There are freelance/gig workers in other industries. Programming has had a massive freelance market for ages. It's practically unheard of for them to receive royalties, so it seems like you don't need to rely on royalties.

And writers do have a salary gig in the vast majority of cases. It's just usually not a long term position. They are hired for the duration of the project, and then need to find something new.

That's not unique to writers or Hollywood at all. Many people are hired for the duration of a project, including managers, engineers, construction workers and so on. None of them receive royalties.