this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
580 points (94.6% liked)
Asklemmy
44170 readers
1811 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
and teenagers drive the same cars as all other adults on the same roads as all other adults to the same jobs as all other adults where they do the same work as all other adults and get the same wages as all other adults and pay the same taxes as all other adults
for all of human history we have known that teenagers are adults
advanced research into neural pathways changes nothing. they are still just as capable of doing all the things they've been doing for thousands of years regardless of what some morons claim about their white matter or prefrontal cortexes.
the brain is by far the least understood organ in the human body, and lots of clickbait bullshit pseudo-science has convinced people that everyone under 25 is a retard. it doesn't take a genius to figure out that teens would be just fine, if we only treated them with basic respect and gave them a chance.
history is replete with examples of that happening. the current level of infantilization of young adults aged 14-24 in the USA is completely unprecedented. it's a huge experiment, and as their rates of depression, self-harm, and suicide have skyrocketed it's safe to say this path is disastrous, evil, or both.
But this follows from none of those papers. You have simply no clue what you're talking about.
I'm absolutely in favor of letting young adults live their lives and participate in society. Give them the right to vote, let their voices be heard. Give them the opportunities they need and want. You're arguing against a strawman if you think I am against any of those. But your original claim is simply false. There are differences between people with 20 and 40, and a much bigger difference between 16 and 40. That doesn't mean we should infantilize 16 year olds, but in certain aspects treating them the same will simply be unfair to the teenager. We have juvenile laws for a reason. And the recommendation to wait with smoking until the early 20s isn't simply meant to annoy young people either.
If you'd stop looking at this from your over emotional point of view and read up on some actual research for a few minutes you could see that everything else you've implied has nothing to do with the topic.
If actual scientists however are nothing but "some morons" for you, you're simply incorrigible and ever conversation with you over this is pointless.
Everything you write fuels bigotry against a hated demographic.
Teens usually have less experience than older adults. So they will be at a disadvantage.
You write that my posts have nothing to do with the topic, but my posts are the topic. You have veered off into totally irrelevant nonsense about neural pathways.
The vast majority of brain development happens ages 0-3 and 9-13. We get adult brains along with our adult bodies during puberty. That is scientific fact. The fact that brains age even after puberty is not new info, nor is it relevant at all to anything. Our brains slow down as we age. Maturity is not always a good thing.
re: "has convinced people that everyone under 25 is a retard" Yes. Sensational clickbait headlines about very unreliable fMRI studies did that. I am talking about public opinion here. You links to studies of tiny brain changes make no difference. Nobody cares. Read the nasty crap peeps write about under 25s. They have truly been convinced that youth are brain-dead morons who must be shunned if not locked up entirely.
*says that teenagers are adults, claims scientific facts with no source whatsoever
Lol.
Ha, good one. Your alternative science doesn't quite fit the actual scientific papers I quoted for you earlier. Weird, right?
But okay, I think now I understand the reason why you can't understand the concept of maturity. Quite obvious, now that I think about it.
Have a nice day!
Odd how our bodies reach adult height and brains adult size during puberty :-)
You have cherrypicked your sources. All of neurology points to very fact that brains develop very quickly ages 9-13 and then very slow change from that point on.
but that data doesn't support your bigotry, so you ignore it.
Incidentally teen brains aged 13-15 perform best on several types of cognitive test.
again, data that bigots choose to ignore.
Teens are adults. We reach Tanner Stage 5 on average at 14 years of age now. This is not in dispute. The science is clear. You just dislike it, so you deflect to irrelevant garbage about some neural pathways that change a bit when you're 20 :-D
Human brains are largest around age 13.
They never stop changing. But is "maturing" development or decay? or both?
We all know that teens are adults and that their brains work fine. People are just desperate to justify aiming hateful bigotry at them.
Well, and if you're not trying to imply that we are at peak cognitive ability at the age of 13 (and I at least hope you don't believe that) this should be hint number one for you that the way you think maturity works is probably wrong.
It also shows me that you didn't even read the short excerpts I provided for you. Here, again:
Or another quote from that paper:
Since you seem confident in your grasp of the topic I guess those two should answer your question.
You chose to ignore all of the obvious signs of adulthood. Instead you want to cherry-pick a few insignificant changes in the brain and say "these are the only things that matter for maturity"
Sorry. That's just very stupid.
It would be equally valid to claim that pubic hair, or menstruation, or any other adult trait is the only one that matters.
You think that there's a difference between 26 year olds and 16 year olds. Well, yes, there is. But many 26 year olds can pass for 16 and vice versa. Because they are both adults. 16 year olds cannot pass for 6 year olds or vice versa. 6 year olds are children.
After puberty humans are adults. This is not difficult. Desperately searching for neuological data so you can claim 17 year olds are children is dumb. Stop doing it. Nobody benefits from you supporting bigotry. Stop it.
This is exactly what you're proposing by claiming that the Tanner Scale is the only determinant. Like really, exactly this. It's beautiful how you're debunking yourself.
Do you know how many factors are considered when calculating the Tanner Scale?
It is a complex and comprehensive measure of puberty.
Puberty is what makes us adults.
The fact that you can deny that with a straight face is amazing.
Your position, that puberty is irrelevant, and the only thing that makes humans adults is a vague kind of "maturity" measured only by minute changes in the least-understood organ in the human body, is appallingly stupid.
Like, I can't believe that you're not just trolling me. How on earth can you claim something so obviously not true?
I'm blocking you. Rethink your life. You don't have to be a useless blockhead troll forever.
Do you?
That's it.