this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
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I’d rather be under the rule of a hegemony that is composed of many different cultures and in the process of healing than one who is still actively genociding their minorities.
EDIT: Welp, I guess there is no war in Ba Sing Se. Ya'll are expert brigaders, well done.
Less than 10% of Native Americans can speak their native language. How many Uighers and Tibetans can speak theirs?
Have you been to a reservation? I remember one that we drove through in Arizona, the Hualapai. It wasn't just a desert, but a salt flat, utterly devoid of vegetation. Along the road, you had dilapidated pre-fabs, occupied of course by the victims that had been placed here. Not all reservations are as harrowing. I've visited the Navajo Nation, as well as Lakota and Ute reservations. Poverty is intense, and people do the best they can, but the reality is that these people had their lands stolen from them and were forced to the most marginal places in US, unsuitable for much agriculture and barely suitable for ranching.
There is no healing in these places, rather the victims of genocide are constantly blamed for their own poverty by the settler communities stole their land. The native peoples were devastated by covid due to the lack of healthcare resources as well.
Let's look at the Black American community as well. It was just 3 years ago that the US had its largest protest movement in history against the police killings of unarmed Black men. And what was the response by the government and media? After a moment of groveling, to take back all promises of reform and instead funnel even more money to an increasingly militarized police force, and to engage in a panicked sensationalized crime wave reportage. Police killings continue (1 in 20 homicides are perpetrated by the police), and the economic situation hasn't improved much for Black Americans since the Great Recession lead to a massive seizure of Black household wealth.
The situation in the US isn't healing, it's an oozing pustulate sore. There has been a failure to reinforce voting rights, and anything like reparations, even just targeted relief, is considered a joke and a non-starter in the halls of power. The only healing is in the minds of libs that think that donning Kente cloth and watching Black Panther constitutes absolution.
This of course is to say nothing of the murderous wars waged by the US in Iraq, Laos, Vietnam and elsewhere, and the genocides it co-sponsored in Guatamala and Indonesia. Or the general neo-colonial global financial mechanisms that lock the third world into permanent debt traps and underdevelopment.
Yeah, the US did and is doing fucked up things. But we're talking scale in the modern era here.
How much longer will the Uyghurs be able to speak their language when china bans Uyghur language books in Uyghur schools? Why does China put up signs at those schools saying that only language permitted on school grounds is Mandarin? Why is china sending hundreds of thousands of Han Chinese to Uyghur home for days at a time to ensure they are speaking Mandarin?
Maybe the US can heal better and faster from its atrocities, but China is actively pursuing atrocities at an official industrial state level.
??? Xinjiang's curriculum still has Uyghur as the primary language as of 2023, Uyghur internet celebs aren't speaking Mandarin on Douyin (ever wonder why TikTok has subtitles as a default? Partially for the hearing impaired, but the app it's cloned from is Chinese and that is multilingual, hence pushing for subtitles as a default. Cantonese, Hokkien, Haka, Min, Tibetan, Uyghur, etc etc)
The news is broadcast in Uyghur, the road signs are in Uyghur
What Reddit post said Han people were going into homes to enforce Mandarin? Han people ourselves don't even speak Mandarin exclusively.
The han people in Uighur homes thing is in the UN report. Afaik the official explanation is some kind of cultural exchange, meet your neighbors, get to know other cultural groups from your country thing, but it sounded pretty clumsy. I don't recall anything about telling people not to speak their language.
Have you heard of Adrian Zenz? The dude is a Christofascist CIA operative, and every claim you made there can be traced straight back to his imagination (aside from your nonsensical hypotheticals of course). Liberals hate christofascists—except when they uphold anticommunism. The Uyghurs and Han Chinese have also coexisted for centuries. Even if anything Zenz says is remotely true, none of it compares in the slightest to the genocide, slavery, and destruction perpetrated around the world by the USA in the last ten years alone.
youve got a lot of spunk for somebody who doesnt really know what they are talking about. China has 56 recognized and protected ethnic minority groups where scholars are creating alphabets for minority languages that had not been previously written as a way to preserve their languages. How many indigenous people in the US and Hawaii can even say that they speak their language after having had them systematically destroyed for decades?
Hint: it's like 2%, and the death of every one of the precious few elders who still fluently speak these languages is an incalculable and irrevocable loss.
1.) I think others in the thread have done a good job on the Uighers situation. On that front, I see a somewhat heavy handed anti-terror program, but the claims of genocide are fabricated and inconsistent with material reality. Of course, the Chinese reaction to terrorism was a bluntly applied education and job training program, and I can see the carcerel angle even from China-sympathetic sources. Was it good? It wasn't great, but the program is effectively over. Compare this to the US anti-terror response which was to invade 2 countries and wage decade long occupations leading to the death and displacement of millions of people.
2.) Is the modern era literally just the past 5 years for you? Do you have the brain of a fucking goldfish? If I stabbed you in the leg are we good 5 years down the road? How about 10 years, or 20, or 50? This makes me mad because the United States was founded on the stolen land and labor of these people, and it continues to treat them like shit. What is healing to you? How can there be healing sans any sort of restitution? China has actually invested a fair amount of resources to protect the various languages and cultures that constitute its society. The US stripped every resource from the Native Americans and gives them the bare minimum to survive as individuals, nowhere near enough to recover.
Yeah, like no question the Chinese anti-terror operation violated basic rights, the rights were things like arbitrary arrest and detention where people were held for several months (and forced to sing patriotic songs for some bizarre reason), not the unhinged fantasies being punted aorund on Reddit and the news.
Like yeah, arresting people and holding them for a month or three without telling their families where they are is wrong. You shouldn't do that. But for some reason Libs never know about what's in the UN report and trying to tell them is like trying to tell a brick wall.
Is this one of those Marvel: What If? Things? Which issue should I be looking at? Is it X-men?
Hey, did you know 250,000 or more internal refugees are fleeing state repression from American government forces that, according to the UN definition, are engaged in an active genocidal campaign against them?
If we pretend that what the USA does to its own people is acceptable, you still have to consider what it does to the rest of the world. I'm sorry, but in light of all the evidence, I see the US hegemony as evil. I also doubt the western media's portrayal of the Uyghur "genocide" and I don't agree that China is in the process of a Holocaust against its own people.
I'm lucky enough to have a job that puts me in contact with a lot of countries all over the global south of the world, and the general opinion from all of them is that China is a lot better prospect than old Western imperialism.
The Chinese propaganda made to counter the satellite images, testimony from victims, and video evidence consists of some YouTubers visiting the same handful of uncomfortably smiling Uyghur families under the careful eye of Chinese censors and fluff pieces that amount to “nuh-uh”.
China is trying to erase the culture of people within their borders, again, and there is a long tradition of this forced assimilation in China. They are not pluralistic, and don't want to be, and their attitude towards non-chinese within their borders lead me to have very low expectations on how they will treat minorities outside.
If a grainy satellite photo that could be of literally anything and random testimony is your standard of evidence please stay the fuck away from any position of authority, everywhere.
China has 56 different major ethinicities and 5 different autonomous regions. The only racist here is you, for believing this shit and knowing nothing about the country. The two fastest growing ethnicities in China are Tibetan followed by Uighur.
"Chinese" is not an ethnicity you racist dumbass. It is a nationality. They are all Chinese.
How could anyone possibly have any doubts in the face of satellite images and eye-witness testimony?
The Iraqi propaganda was hastily produced to justify a war. The Uyghur situation has been uncovered by journalists slowly over decades.
I thought your links would be to any of the dozens of images, articles, and videos on the Uyghur situation. Why not link a debunking of that instead of trying to assert that because lies exist that the Uyghur ethnocide is also a lie. Your argument is weak because facts won't support it.
Since you sound like an expert who has really done your homework here, let’s see some of these stunning pictures you’re talking about and then compare them to photos from America’s prisons. I wonder which will look worse? Doesn’t the USA also lock up far more people per capita than China?
As a point of comparison the US has hands down the most violent and oppressive carceral system in the west by a huge margin, and they can't keep people from broadcasting audio and video from inside the prison even when the pigs have the whole place locked down to hide the atrocities being comitted from the world.
Uncovered over decades? It seems like decades in internet years but the first reports started in 2014, less than 9 years ago.
Damn, I wonder when the US released the last Uyghur detainees from Guantanamo Bay?
It was more too discount the fact that either of those things are conclusive evidence in some way. Idk where you're getting "slowly over decades" from because the entire story is barely 9 years old. All of the "journalism" on the subject is just people regurgitating stuff from Adrian Zenz, a dude claims he was "led by God to fight China" and works for a nonprofit that claims COVID-19 deaths and German WWII casualties count as victims of communism. Hardly a reliable source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js
this guy doesn't even support china's policy and he will debunk all of this shit for you
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Imagine being from Canada and bleating about China trying to erase the culture of people. Projecting much?
Do a google image search for “Uyghur genocide.” Report back with any interesting images you find. This has been going on for twenty years now, surely there must be some pretty gruesome photos somewhere, comparable at least to the images of the Haitians deported by Biden to make room for Ukrainians in a totally not racist way?
You know the UN wrote a whole-ass report about XinJiang, right?
I'd like to live in China too
Source: Adrian Zenz
China has 56 different major ethinicities and 5 different autonomous regions. The only racist here is you, for believing this shit and knowing nothing about the country. The two fastest growing ethnicities in China are Tibetan followed by Uighur.
The Hui people are also a different kind of Muslim living in China but liberals haven’t learned about them yet.
It's a frontpage post dumbass 💀 we're not brigading we're just commenting on the post that appears on our feeds
Yes, a swarm of tankies from the same instance(hexbear) descending upon the same thread with the same opinions, and spamming images, totally not brigading.
It literally isn't, and if you actually learned how federation works, rather than assuming everything works like reddit, you'd know that
It's a communist instance with very few other instances federated, what the fuck do you expect? The CPC doesn't give a shit about either of us, you aren't involved in some YA dystopia story by posting.
The only spam-like opinions I'm seeing are all the same stale old forms of apologia for the world-strangling US Empire, and the same old stale racism and homophobia from scratched liberals.
They're just a bunch of harmless china apologists. Pretend taiwan isn't a country and they'll leave you alone
Hey now. Don't be mean. We're not apologizing. We're cheerleading. Being the only country in the world to meaningfully reduce extreme poverty is a hell of a thing.
So the DPR and LPR are independent countries, right?
"Yes, but if they invite allied troops into their country it stills counts as an invasion of Ukraine. What do you mean that isn't independence? "
how are the first peoples doing my guy?
Which country are you talking about? The us? CAnada? Australia? There's so many countries actively genociding their minorities you need to narrow it down. Are the French still trying to put the Romani in camps? I haven't looked in to it in a while.
go look for Iraq's missing WMDs