this post was submitted on 07 Apr 2024
626 points (94.8% liked)
Games
16949 readers
652 users here now
Video game news oriented community. No NanoUFO is not a bot :)
Posts.
- News oriented content (general reviews, previews or retrospectives allowed).
- Broad discussion posts (preferably not only about a specific game).
- No humor/memes etc..
- No affiliate links
- No advertising.
- No clickbait, editorialized, sensational titles. State the game in question in the title. No all caps.
- No self promotion.
- No duplicate posts, newer post will be deleted unless there is more discussion in one of the posts.
- No politics.
Comments.
- No personal attacks.
- Obey instance rules.
- No low effort comments(one or two words, emoji etc..)
- Please use spoiler tags for spoilers.
My goal is just to have a community where people can go and see what new game news is out for the day and comment on it.
Other communities:
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't think Starship Troopers really describes an utopia - the impression I had when I read it was that it describes a fascist regime from the inside. And when I say "inside", I don't mean a rebel that tries to fight the system from within. Starship Troopers gives us the point of view of a conforming citizen who has fully internalized the fascist propaganda he was subjected to.
Dystopian fiction tends to have the protagonist quickly figure out how bad society is (and when I say "quickly" I mean soon after the story begins - it's possible for the character to have a long prior history during which they were completely devoted to the totalitarian rule). The reader and the author already know we are dealing with an evil government, so it makes sense to bring the protagonist up to speed and make them the hero who fights against the atrocities - or at least tries to survive them.
Rico is different. He had some doubts early on, but they are quickly crushed and by the time he finishes his training he remains obedient for the rest of the story. And it's not like he's unaware of the establishment's wrongdoings - he just doesn't see them as wrongdoings, but just as how things are. Or even more than that - how things should be. And the democracy-accustomed reader is expected to understand the horror of these practices, even through the point of view of a character who admires them.
And this, in my opinion, is Starship Troopers' greatest and most unique trait. Something that franchises Warhammer 40k or Helldivers are too tongue-in-cheek to truly replicate.
I disagree. Rico's family was quite well off. They lived a very comfortable life, and his dad didn't see any reason to go to the effort of gaining citizenship, because it earned him nothing more than what he already had. They had basic rights, they just weren't citizens with the right to vote. Rico joined because he had a more civic-minded group of friends that was joining. TBH, Rico isn't shown as being particularly bright; when he did his aptitude tests, mobile infantry was the very best that he was qualified for, and... That wasn't really that great. (That would be like getting a 36 on the ASVABs right now; juuuuuuuuuust enough to get into the Marine Corp, and not high enough to do anything other than the most basic jobs.) As far as a human population goes that we see in the story, there isn't any obvious underclass, which is a requirement for fascism. Yes, there were non-citizens that had no vote, but there was always a path for them to get their franchise, if they were willing to put in the effort. (As far as I recall, there wasn't a specific requirement that you serve in military; given that Heinlein goes out of his way to say that a position would be created for someone that was profoundly disabled, I think it's pretty clear that it was never just military service. But Heinlein was a military vet, and he was writing science fiction for a YA audience at the time, and military service was more exciting than, say, civil engineering.)
Moreover, Heinlein goes out of his way to say that no one that is currently in their term of service has the franchise. By choosing to become career military, Rico is giving up the ability to exercise his franchise unless and until he retires. Fascism is often--if not always--characterized by military control over large areas of civilian life. But if the military has no direct political power, that's sharply undermined.
...But it was a democracy. It just wasn't a birthright democracy. Every person had to affirmatively choose to work for citizenship, rather than citizenship being granted based on where you were born, or who your parents were, but the right to work towards citizenship was afforded to everyone regardless of parentage, etc. I think that's a pretty positive thing, TBH. I think that the US would likely be a lot better place politically if everyone had to be personally invested in the system, and if everyone had to actually pass civics and history tests before they were allowed to vote. I know, I know, it's crazy, but maaaaaaaaybe a basic understanding of civics would mean that someone like Trump never would have gotten elected in the first place, since he's so bent on undermining and destroying the entire system.
I think that Heinlein gets some things very right; people value a thing much more if they have to put in some kind of personal effort to get the thing than people who simply have it handed to them. I also think that he gets some things very, very wrong, like his ideas on corporal punishment. (Which, TBF, were not that out of line for 1959.)
I think that you haven't read very much Heinlein if you think that he was writing satire at this point in his career. Stranger In a Strange Land had elements of satire, and Job was absolutely satire, but things like The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress is very straight forward. Heinlein is remarkably consistent in a lot of his writing; he's largely libertarian and believes people should be able to be self-reliant, but he still mostly believes in the gov't as a positive force. He's deeply distrustful of religion though; any time religion shows up in his books, it's a net negative.