this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2024
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[–] Lileath@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 6 months ago (13 children)

It is even more funny if the reading isn't in your native language. I can write in English at a C1-C2 level but I am at the B level when speaking as I have no clue how to pronounce most of my regular vocabulary that I use when writing.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (11 children)

They didn't teach pronunciation when you learned to read English? That's one of the very first parts of instruction when teaching it to native speakers. That's also how instruction went when I learned Spanish. Granted, those are both Latin based languages, so I have no idea how it would work for something like Chinese to English.

[–] Axolotl@feddit.de 11 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Probably depends on how much formal education you had and how much is from reading books and stuff on the Internet. The Problem with English pronunciation is, that it's completely arbitrary, depending from which language the word is originally. I don't know about Spanish but in French you can usually derive a words pronunciation from it's spelling and vice versa.

[–] uis@lemm.ee 6 points 6 months ago

but in French you can usually derive a words pronunciation from it's spelling and vice versa.

I think same goes for every sane language

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

French is also a proscriptive language. There is a governing body that decides which words are "French" and how they should be pronounced.

English is a descriptive language. Words can be borrowed from other languages, and the only "rule" is common usage. If you speak and you are understood, then that's all that matters. There is no authority or governing body, as much as dictionaries like Oxford, Merriam, and Webster try to pretend to be. That can cause word pronunciations to change over time. There's actually an interesting phenomenon where English words will be "mis"-pronounced because people make up non-existent rules, and if enough people believe it, then the pronunciation becomes correct through popular usage.

Take the word "forte" meaning a personal strength or expertise. It is a word English borrowed from French, and many UK English speakers use the original French pronunciation, which sounds almost exactly like "fort." American English speakers, seeing the word written and thinking it didn't sound French enough, mispronounced the word as "FORtay" and this has become the accepted pronunciation in the USA. Further confusion stems from homonym used in music "forte" which is pronounced "forTEH" because it is the Italian word for "strong" meaning loud or forceful. Linguists sometimes also argue that the US pronunciation caught on because it clearly differentiated the word from the word "fort" meaning a military encampment.

The point is, English has no rules. To quote James D. Nicoll, "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

Yeah, I realized after asking that it's kind of a dumb question, considering I'm a native speaker and I was just writing about how I've mispronounced a bunch of words for most of my life that I've only ever read.

[–] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 months ago

In Spanish, you can derive a word's pronunciation from its spelling, but not the other way around, due to letters such as b, v, h, ll and y, some of which are interchangeable or mute.

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