this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2023
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[–] MudMan@kbin.social 31 points 10 months ago (24 children)

I'm always amazed by how Americans in particular (sorry if you're not, I'm assuming) tend to go from one end of the spectrum to the other without any middle stops in common sense land. I once had a US friend go straight from "we have bad health care" to "we need a violent revolution" with no consideration to... you know, maybe good health care?

I mean, from my perspective it seems pretty obvious that you should only take as many sick days as you need, but you should take all the ones you need, to an unlimited total amount.

Like, that seems so simple. It's how it's always worked in the multiple countries I've lived in. You're sick? You call in sick. You need to be off for multiple days? You ask your doctor to officially declare that you're sick. The company is taking a hit? The government covers your wages during your long term sickness.

This works. We know this works. It's obvious this works.

[–] Jomega@lemmy.world 27 points 10 months ago (21 children)

We don't believe that the government will let us have good Healthcare without revolution at this point. One side violently opposes it and the other dangles it like a carrot on a stick for votes, with no intention of actually providing it because if they actually improved things somewhat they'd lose a precious bargaining chip. This song and dance has been going on for as long as I've been alive. We're losing hope here.

[–] MudMan@kbin.social 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (16 children)

See? But that's the thought process that I find baffling. Because I can't find an American who doesn't claim to be dissatisfied, so... how do you land in that mix of conformism, where you don't think you can take political action of any sort to address it, but also extremism, where you think the logical endgame is full on armed conflict?

How do you massage a whole continent-sized country's psyche into just sitting there and taking it right up until the point where you start shooting people? I'm not even French and even I can see the glaring hole full of mass protesting right in the middle of that crap.

And hey, not to spoil any big secrets, but the US is literally the only democracy that hasn't rewritten its constitution fundamentally since its creation. You guys know that's allowed, right? Go argue for a proportional system or a parliamentary system or something. I mean, you guys could try doing something at all before deciding that it's full-on purge time.

[–] SciRave@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I'm American and it's never made much sense to me, either.

Afaik it's fundementally 5 forces.

  • Severe distrust of the established institutions, including the democratic process.
  • Long-drawn, multi-generational unrest ever since late globalization and the decline of unions.
  • Anti-labor propaganda and institutional complacency.
  • Increased alienation and in-fighting among the population. Got much worse ever since the MAGA repubs cropped up. We're fighting against 40-50% of the population for basic shit. (Have you seen our paralyzed congress?)

Finally, this unwillingness to be the first to bite the bullet. Inevitably, the first people to start off these grassroots movements are going to get the shortest end of the stick. They are people sacrificing their free time and economic security for a movement that begs others to do the same.

It's a massive risk.

[–] MudMan@kbin.social 3 points 10 months ago

FWIW, I do recognize all of those from the outside looking in.

I also recognize that you have so few protections that action is riskier than it is here, where protesting can't be legally retaliated against and there are actual labor protections in place that make effecting change easier. Which in turn is part of the expectation that the government should proactively help you when you need it.

But still, it does seem like there should be a middle point somewhere where you get rid at least of point one and you tip over point three, right? That seems like it'd happen way before stuff gets really violent.

But then, culturally you guys fantasize about violently confronting the government since day one, which I guess is what happens when your foundational myth is also a colonial-revolutionary myth.

It is pretty messed up, though.

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