Lemmy.ml users incoming to tell me how that's actually the EU's fault
this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2024
280 points (97.9% liked)
Europe
1668 readers
571 users here now
News and information from Europe πͺπΊ
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
(This list may get expanded when necessary.)
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.
founded 6 months ago
MODERATORS
EU dresses up so slutty I just had to act.
They should hold that boat indefinitely and close the gap in Kattegat for all Russian vessels.
And Chinese, NorK (are there any?) vessels
They seem to have a decent fleet of fishing vessels, but all their foreign trade on water seems to be with China, via The Yellow Sea
ever since i started using lemmy all I've heard is bad things about that instance so I don't understand why we don't just defederate from them? This is a genuine question to anyone with the answer, thanks!
I started there. It's tiring when every international political discussion boils done to China/Russia good because NATO bad. .ml is subtle about it and does a lot of word game shit you see in right wing media. They maintain enough plausible deniability to remain federated. The defederate instances were the one using slurs.
Yes, they are more subtle in parroting propaganda, but they block everyone who is only slightly critical of China/Russia. They are the same people.
@ashley0_0@lemmy.blahaj.zone This puzzles me, too. That instance is a cheap propaganda instance that has been banned by Reddit some time ago for a good reason. I don't know why we don't defederate.
It's the instance admined by the authors of Lemmy itself. The official forum is !lemmy@lemmy.ml. It's a bit disingenuous to ask to defederate from them, unless we want the already tense relationship with the authors of the software to break entirely.
Well Lemmy is open source, isn't it? So someone could just make a fork of it, can't they?
Of course they could but that's not free. Forked projects are a lot of work. Maybe it would be easier to go for a different software, such as kbin. Or maybe the defederation goes over just fine and arrangements are found easily. I don't know. My point is there's a social component to defederating that's likely a bit bigger than just shutting out Russia/China enjoyers.
My point is thereβs a social component to defederating thatβs likely a bit bigger than just shutting out Russia/China enjoyers.
I have to disagree. It's not just this community's "West bad, Russia/China bad okay" hypocrisy and the fact that they convey their narrative and their narrative only (everything else gets immediately blocked, while they accuse others literally of 'double standards'). One of my main points is that they support Russia's war in Ukraine, which is a genocide. It's the only community that openly supports an attempted genocide.
[Edit typo.]
That's a response to an argument I was not making. I share your non-enthusiasm about .ml.
I was talking about the social cost of locking out the creators of Lemmy. It's reasonable to argue that that social cost is worth bearing. But it's imo unreasonable to pretend it doesn't exist.
However, I would caution that .ml is the standard instance that many people start out at, because that's the site promoted from Lemmy's GitHub and from join-lemmy:org. There are reasonable people caught among the unreasonable ones.
I'd object to [.ml] being the "only community that supports an attempted genocide" [emphasis mine], for two reasons:
- The Grad and Bear instances also exist and are more consistently pro-Russian. They are already defederated from e.g. feddit.org, precisely because there is no social cost associated with defederating them.
- I find it hard to accept this stance of absolute moral superiority. What the Russian government inflicts on Ukraine is atrocious but not entirely unparalleled.
[Edith: formatting]
What the Russian government inflicts on Ukraine is atrocious but not entirely unparalleled.
What does that mean? The aggressor here is Russia, they started the war unprovoked. What exactly is 'unparalleled'?
I was talking about genocide and offensive wars in general, not the context of this particular war.
So what does that mean? If .lm communities openly support Russia's war in Ukraine, is it a 'stance of absolute moral superiority' to condemn this because the same happens elsewhere? (It should be a matter of course, but just to mention it: We must condemn genocide everywhere, no matter where it happens.)
I am admittedly having a hard time putting my contention with this into words in a way that makes sense. I may have chosen the wrong hill to die on. In which case, sorry for that "absolute moral stance". I do think the remainder of that comment holds up, though.
So it's the only community that is openly supporting genocide, right? That's obvious I guess.
Absolutely not. I mentioned the Bear and Grad servers before. I am pretty sure you'll find niches supporting the Gaza war or supporting other genocidal conflicts.
Since .ml is the server advertized to people via join-lemmy:org, it also attracts a more diverse crowd, so not every user there is a tankie.
No, not every user is a tankie there. I perfectly agree with that. Many users are unaware when they join the server.
But those who are responsible there are the same or at least have the same mindset like the Bear and Grad servers.
I feel used to the internet being full of stupid nonsense, so I just ignore .ml's share, and in a way it's a refreshing balance to the usual genre from e.g. .world and Reddit. Usually it's either run-of-the-mill echo chamber or respectful discussion.
But there's lots of good stuff on .ml too. I'm glad to still be federated.
Itβs just a ridiculous trope, a preemptive threat against posting a non-mainstream stance.
Wasn't .ml the second largest instance at one point?
Oh no... Russia has dragged China in WW3, hasn't it?
China did this same shit well before Russia brought them into the war.
Where?
There was a pipeline damaged last year under circumstances that seemed to be challenging to rule as accidental. China claimed responsibility, but claimed it wasn't intentional, but it seems they ignored all communication attempts made to the ship and that the amount of time they dragged anchor along the seabed would have been impossible to not notice.
Thank you. This is news to me. I just hope there were repercussions because such an "oopsie" should still lead to having to pay for the damages done.
I haven't found anything past the August updates I linked. Someone more local might be able to chime in if there're some non-English updates out there that I can't find.
I can't imagine it's quick or easy to do repairs in the middle of the sea. π§
Being that was after the war started, I wouldn't list that as anything other than a possible attempt to cause gas shortages and economic damages to Ukrianes support.
I'm inclined to agree. Both events seem to involve too many coincidences for it to be unintentional. I have no idea how they would prove this, and moreso what the official response would be.
I'd be very curious to see a video or write-up of how the investigation is done and if there is any deep sea forensics work.
Yeah it would be hard to prove it wasn't just an idiot dragging many thousands of pounds behind them. But at 60-70 meters deep is deeper (but not unheard of) of a depth for a ship to lay anchor.
For them to then start going again while dragging the anchor and not realize the ship is moving incorrectly for a long distance seems impossible.
This particular instance is sounding more malicious as it seems they have the same ship at the right location to have caused the damage on 2 occasions now. I haven't gotten to read any updates since they were pinning down the ship's location data yesterday to see if they've found even more showing this was intentional.
We have had recentish events though where we have had extreme disruption caused by ships with the Ever Given in the Suez and the Dali collapsing the bridge to the Baltimore ports due to human error. The Baltimore incident has a nice write up on the investigation, going through the ship maintenance, questioning different people, and going through the ships's black box data.
I've been thinking one of the motivations for the invasion of Ukraine was to secure a larger food supply to keep China fed through an all out trade war. Them shutting down exports to the west might be enough to destabilize things sufficiently to change the world order once the dust settles. Especially if combined with the invasion/destruction of Taiwan.
Again
Oof. They might be doing this to throw oil on the fire.