this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2023
34 points (75.0% liked)

Science Fiction

13420 readers
2 users here now

Welcome to /c/ScienceFiction

December book club canceled. Short stories instead!

We are a community for discussing all things Science Fiction. We want this to be a place for members to discuss and share everything they love about Science Fiction, whether that be books, movies, TV shows and more. Please feel free to take part and help our community grow.

  1. Be civil: disagreements happen, but that doesn’t provide the right to personally insult others.
  2. Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, ableist, or advocating violence will be removed.
  3. Spam, self promotion, trolling, and bots are not allowed
  4. Put (Spoilers) in the title of your post if you anticipate spoilers.
  5. Please use spoiler tags whenever commenting a spoiler in a non-spoiler thread.

Lemmy World Rules

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I'm not saying Empire is bad by any means. It's still entertaining. But I was shocked when the Internet burst my bubble to declare Jedi a joke and Empire the best. (btw, potential spoilers)

Why I don't like ESB As Much. There doesn't really seem to be any central thesis. Also, the protagonists lack any agency. The inciting incident is that they rebels are on the run from the Empire. I mean, obviously it's in the title. But you have Luke that gets a vision to start a training program to which he just says, "sure, why not?" And you have Han on the run from the Empire with a broken hyperdrive where they just kinda just chill and twiddle their thumbs for most of it, until they think they can hide out with Lando who turns them over to Vader (which, yes did have a lot of tension!). The final lightsaber battle is decent, but there doesn't seem to be much umph behind it until Luke's hand gets cut off. I think the story could have been vastly improved if Luke & Han had their plot lines interact, possibly Luke had a plan he conferred with Han about, and Han knew about this, and Vader knew Han knew about this, so then Vader was chasing Han to get the information...something like that. That would have raised the stakes. And the whole ultimatum Vader doesn't sound convincing or within character--there was nothing in Empire that supports the motive, so it's a payoff that didn't have a setup. Again, Empire is far from a bad movie. I've seen it many times and probably will again. But to me it just felt an "in-between" type of movie.

Why I like ROTJ. Yeah, there are issues. The whole Ewoks battle does turn into a Home Alone type scenario. I think the only reason why is that George Lucas fumbled the storytelling a little--that the bonds that hold the rebels together (with little in the way of armaments) are what defeated the empire with their colossal Death Star. And the characters did seem to start from a blank slate as if Empire didn't happen. But overall it carried the emotional weight I look for with movies. In the scene with the Emporer overlooking the battle for several minutes not a lightsaber is unsheathed but you can see the chess game unfolding between the Emperor, Vader, and Luke. And then the Dark Side wins, not through force of will, but through Luke's desire to do the right thing. The space battle, too, is epic. Some people critique that the Death Star being operational wasn't as big a twist as Lucas intended, but I don't think it was ever intended to be a big reveal. It was just another setback for the rebels that were already frantically trying to defeat an overpowering enemy.

Alright, time for the comments! XD

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] animist@lemmy.one 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

I have always felt this way but could not articulate it, so thank you for doing so.

The only correction I would make is the reasoning for the Ewoks. Lucas knew that the only way for him to get rich was to merchandise the fuck out of the franchise, and the easiest way to do that was to make toys.

[–] niktemadur@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But do you know where the action could have taken place for the same type of texture, but with so much better impact?

Lucas supposedly intended to visit Chewie's home planet of Kashyyk for the '77 film, but didn't have the budget so he rewrote it out of the script, and didn't get there until '05 with Revenge Of The Sith... unless you count the Holiday Special, which one shouldn't.

So imagine that instead of the Death Star V.2 being built in orbit around that Endor forest moon, it's on the Wookie homeworld, with Chewie stepping forward as a combat leader among his people, Han fighting side by side with a Wookie platoon.

Now imagine a 1983 Kenner/Mattel toy line of Wookie warriors, with their crossbows and lances and booby traps for stormtroopers and such. Considering the cuteness overload we got instead, what a missed opportunity.

[–] animist@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I remember reading that the Wookie outfits were too expensive so he took what he had, cut them in half, and made ewok costumes

[–] niktemadur@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

too expensive

If true, it sounds like other penny-pinching Lucas stories I've read through the years and decades. Skimping on 2-3 million for a film that cost 32 million to make, and was all but guaranteed to make over 300 million at the box office anyway.
Then probably patted himself on the back for being so astute.

load more comments (2 replies)